Future Changes to Webtoon Line?

[KuroXue]

What are you defining as a "good" story and "dream" story?
I understand it if you say they are cliche or just done purely to seek money, but someone who wants to write/draw/create would surely do what he/she/they wants to do.
Art is subjective. You can criticize it by having in mind a general audience and it's own points that could possibly distinguish it from others, but it in my opinion words like good or bad should never be said.

Idk, I don't wanna sound rude, just addressing something I feel is important.

[Moi]

Try mine then. LOL.
HERE

[Hodge]

Head of Content is a nice sounding title lol. Think of the fancy LA office and the parties you could host at conventions~

I have similar predictions. I was worried that because I'm one of those young people seeking manga/manhwa/manhua that I was conflating myself with Line's general audience, but when you look through Discover its pretty apparent that the manga/anime style is what readers just enjoy. Its odd to me that they'd move away from this when the readers on Discover are also the ones with the highest retention rate (probably) and most likely to visit frequently (probably).

Not to say its a totally bad idea to have "a comic for everyone," diversity and unique/creative content can be a strength. But to take the risk of investing in comics which are usually not popular with the audience, and then basically let these comics continue for as long as the creators want (as far as I know) seems like a bad move from a business perspective. I've even seen some of these comics go on hiatus for forever it seems, and like, is Line still paying them.

[Hodge]

Ayy good idea~ And yeah I was waiting for awhile since I'm a fan of a few of their comics but hate reading webtoons on pc. They launched their app rather recently.

[Hodge]

Sorry to but in and no mean to offend, but could you address this topic in a new thread maybe ("Is there an objectively good/bad comic?" or something like that). I feel like this an important and interesting topic definitely worth discussing, and so deserves its own thread . . . also so we can keep this one on topic.

[skicoak]

I'm an old fogey so I was raised almost exclusively on western style comics ... the manga influx didn't even start until late high school...and Heavy Metal was the best source to check out European styles.

But I appreciate good storytelling in any form... so my bias is minimal.

I don't think what they were doing over there was a bad business model at all. It was forward thinking enough to recognize trends/tastes can shift but still providing enough of what was hot to sustain readership. If you want to watch what happens to a medium that doesn't adapt to appeal to new/shifting trends look at mainstream Marvel/DC. As their potential audience drifted away, they triple downed to pandering to an aging shrinking core audience. They've basically become IP libraries for other mediums...they have to keep pimping BIG events to soak every cent out of pockets now.

If you want to see desperation reduced to a business model, look up the Evergreen marketing plan. It's downright scary and cynical.

But that's the future you're asking for if you ONLY produce one type of product and excluding any potential new directions.

[okellymx]

Its especially hearthbreaking for me when I see a story with good art but lacking in story.

I don't really think this affects as much. A series lacking in story can still be entertaining with things like characters and art style however. I rarely find the opposite to be true. Having something lack in artwork pushes people away before they even have a chance to read it. Which is precisely why I mentioned quality of the comics. Art is subjective to a point but like all things there are trends like you and @seru noted about the manga/manwha style that people like so if the Head of content is picking things outside that standard of quality it could affect the overall readership.

Sure it may bring in readers but if they aren't the kind of readers that would read other series that aren't like it what's the point? If more readers are reading comics from discover and the promoted ones aren't as popular as they used to be you are going to have a problem especially if you are paying the promoted series and they aren't bringing in the money.

Honestly after reading re-reading the whole thing it seems like they will probably start being more strict on what series they take and don't. I guess it's good for growth but after a while when that boom stagnates something has to change. So they are probably going to replace the Tom dude with someone

[Moi]

I just hope that the Discovery Section of Webtoons does not thrown out the Window.
Don't READ - Webtoons

[okellymx]

I think that would be more true if they were selling the comics. All comics on webtoon are free and they make all there money elsewhere. So if their core audience isn't reading these western styled comics as much as other things than it is a bad business model, especially if they are paying them base pay without proper editing of their content. As the OP stated Line doesn't seem to axe featured comics. However there is no information on this so it could just be nothing and they could have removed him because maybe he was farting too much)

[okellymx]

I wasn't going to respond to this because I though it was off topic but it leads to a great point. Art is subject until you are a business or a professional. As an almost professional artist my art quality and writing affects how much people are willing to pay me. Especially true if people are willing to do better quality at the same price and speed.

There is a standard where people are willing to pay for content. It's fine now because they don't charge for it but eventual with the paid competition having higher quality content Line needs to change it's business model if it wants to keep making money. Art quality and writing does affect readership. If Line doesn't make money from these apps which I'm pretty sure their funding comes from Naver and other advertising apps it will be hard to keep this going if your profit is down more than 60%.
Assuming this is correct.

However this is all speculation.

Why Did Line Corporation Plunge to a New 52-Week Low? -- The Motley Fool

(LEAD) Naver Q3 net profit down 68.3 pct on slowing mobile biz

[skicoak]

But the marketing strategy would still be based on appealing to the greatest potential amount of viewers to maximize ad revenue across the board...selling them stats to the total number of viewers to the site.

So let's say manga/manwa/manhua fans constitute 95% percent of the site's viewers...then you're probably doing just fine at reaching manga/manwa/manhua fans. The market for growth potential is potential readers NOT fans of that style, and not already on Webtoons. Taking a few big swings at getting them signed up...then you push the other content as well.

That's a sound strategy for potential growth.

[Hodge]

@skicoak oof every one of the ads they recommended were the type I ignore. .. also adblock lol. And really liked Heavy Metal, guys like Moebius were a huge inspiration to me.

I mean, I can't judge Line's decisions too much since I don't have the numbers, but if they're really that desperate for growth I'm not sure that was the smartest way to go about it. Its not like its their first time publishing western style comics, so they already knew it doesn't do as well (the ranking is quite clear on this), and then they don't axe comics that are below quotas or there's one with a 5/10 star rating (which is really bad for a featured comic). Not axeing makes sense when they're just moving a discover comic to featured since they know it already has an audience. But they came out with completely new comics and were banking on big names like Stan Lee, which did get them new readership, but those readers are also gonna look at what else the app has to offer and possibly just leave (don't have the data) with low engagement, and therefore less ad revenue.

And there is also the problem with becoming an IP library, but I don't know if that's too bad considering their revenue is through ads.
Edit: actually it is an issue in the sense that it bolsters Line's competitors, so I see what you're saying. You can post your comic on Line, build an audience, and then once a publisher takes it up your audience gets a notice "hey my comic is moving to x so head on over there," driving traffic towards a competitor.

But they also sponsored some ads with big youtubers and that was a good decision I think. And I like the variety they offer. It'd kinda suck if all their featured comics were anime/manga style and romance (don't even read these myself). Though they might've went a bit overkill with the contest, I think it went well. And travelling to conventions and selling merch seems like a good idea to me. So I agree with many of their business practices, but if they're trying to tap into new readership I think they should've gone for . . . well. . . weebs. But I'm just rambling and without the numbers can't really know.

@okellymx oh I don't really separate characters and story haha, but for me if I find a story boring after 20 chapters I drop it. While I can tolerate iffy/mediocre art if the story is good and communicated well. Not every artist is a good storyteller. But if you're being paid, both art and story should be up to par.

[beta1042]

I think things will stay relatively the same for the majority of us. The biggest change I see happening is a shift in the content that gets featured.

[skicoak]

I mean, to the individual creators, how well their webcomics did matters but for statistical reason it's only the total numbers of viewers site wide that matter for selling ad space to potential advertisers. They have to increase that number... not guarantee good results.

Like buying Super Bowl ad space, the network doesn't care if it's a good game when selling ads...or the potential advertiser is a good match demographic wise... they're just selling space.

[okellymx]

But as far as I know that isnt how they got their or get their money. A lot of their money came from investments and their mobile apps. Gaining as many views as possible and paying a minimum of $2,000 a month regardless of how well the comic performs doesn't sound ideal as a business plan. Especially if you aren't cutting under performing content.

[beta1042]

I'm pretty sure they cut under performing comics. The Dane Man(or whatever it's called) was cut and so was Dr. Frost. I don't keep up with it too much but I've heard of atleast those two.

I believe they get a set budget from their parent company. My understanding (Which I admit could very well be wrong cause some of this is stuff I hear/read randomly) is their goal right now is less about building profit and more about establishing themselves as the dominant webcomic app.

[Hodge]

I see! Hmm so browsing the completed section and does seem like a a couple of them stop abruptly. And for those than end at 15-40 chapters can't really know if they were that short because of Line, comic is just short, or some say its hiatus/creator's decision. Also, Dr.Frost had over 100 chapters and Daneman had over 200, so don't really know what to make of that. But Line Webtoon has always been rather secretive so could be cutting comics and I'm just not paying attention.

Definitely heard a couple years ago that a major goal for them was to make themselves known abroad, but they always intended to make profit and it might be more urgent that they do so now idk (source) Granted, I don't know how these things work, what with million dollar corporations and all lol. Hasn't been too long since they've launched in 2014?? and I think they've definitely had success in establishing themselves as the #1 comic platform/publisher?? app at over 10 million downloads. But maybe they had higher expectations, have spent most of their set budget, or want to move into multimedia adaptations like they do in Korea as a way to turn a profit. They apparently wanted to grow local comics rather than just only translate Korean comics, which I appreciate but felt like it could've been done more effectively. Comics being made into movies/shows in the states are a select few, and little to none of those are webcomics (I think???). Articles say that naver was investing $134 million in overseas expansion (including Japan and China), so who knows how much of that is gone. And even they know ad revenue isn't sustainable. But I'm just speculating, so uhh take my words with a grain of salt.

[bakasama25]

That might explain why XOY (Japan's version of LINE Webtoons) stopped updating their Korean webtoons there. I don't think Japanese readers were happy about that.

[Kotopopi]

Maybe they're just expanding too fast compared to the market's expansion.
I mean, webcomics have been a thing in Korea and Japan for a very long time while in America the phenomenon is still very young (and I'm not even talking about Europe, where I live, where it's still practically unknown).

It's a bit like the comic book market: the offer is always expanding but the number of readers stagnates.

They translated this with 'if you wanna add readers you'll have to tap into other generations than teens and other type of comics than manga'. Which isn't wrong per se, but is this because they considered that the teen/manga tier was already saturated? I don't think so. They could have indulged a bit more in the manga/manwa frienzy and flourish there before the competition attacks (and it's already attacking).
Also: is America the only English market in which you can look for comic readers of all generations?
I don't think so.

They had the potential to talk to the whole world as their platform is in English (thing that a korean or japanese or chinese platform can't do) and they targeted exclusively a slightly older readrship that likes american comics.
Well, great... But american comics doesn't even represent the 10% of what we read, for exemple, in Europe.

So perfect, expand your readership! But why only american comics?? ^_^'
Sometimes it felt like Tom Akel was realizing his childhood's dreams more than doing what was good for Webtoon...

[beta1042]

I really don't think there was anything wrong with bringing in Western comics, I think the problem was the manner in which they flooded the website with them in what felt like a few months(I admit it may have been longer but just felt like a sudden surge). This causes those comics to compete against eachother, therefore setting up a number of them for failure since well they all came so shortly one after another. I don't think there was a large enough audience for that big of a dump, and the type of target audience is usually older people who in my experience have less time to subscribe to multiple comics. They're more likely to pick a a comic here and there but not a bunch all at once. Meanwhile the larger demographic of readers felt alienated by the sudden surge of western comics and lack of their korean manhwa style. (although who knows- maybe their end goal was to set those comics up for as much success as possible?)

I think it would have worked better if there was a slower integration of western comics, and making sure that the all comics they launch come out in a diverse manner, never having too many new releases of any single type or genre. Also think they should have some western-korean hybrid style comics that can kinda bridge the two genres together so that you can get people to branch out more. Some may be put off by a completely different style/genre, but if they see a comic that is a blend of the two this could slowly open up their mind to be more accepting of the other- like "Hey I really ended up liking this one, maybe I should give those other comics a try".

But that's just my view on the situation.