Has bagging on series become too common?

[Delphonse]

To clarify the question. I use to watch people do reviews on anime that I have seen before. I always though it was kind of interesting to see the details of certain things as well as see what other people though of the same series.

Lately I find it strange to see that it is common to bag on popular things and point out every mistake and problem a series has. Everyones a critic or so they say. It bothers me quite a bit. The more popular something becomes the more negative more often than positive it is percieved.

I get that the fanbase that constantly hypes up stuff like anime or games may be over doing it ocassionally but why is it cool to suddenly point out every mistake a series has?

The first time I personally saw this was with Sword Art Online. I have watched 100s of anime in my lifetime and I never really tried critiqing anything I mearly watched anime to enjoy it. Same went for SAO. I am going to say it now. I enjoyed watching it quite a bit. The first season was really fun. I liked the fight scenes and I though Kirito and Asuna were cute together. It was not until half way through the second ark that I found out many people including close friends hated it and called it garbage. I looked into it and saw what people meant when they said garbage and yea they have a point. It is not the best anime out there and honestly I don't think they were aiming for that.

What gets under my skin and really made me nervous to post my series let alone start it. Was people try hard to produce content that they want to show the world. They spend months sometimes years creating it. They are proud and see that people like it. But then reviewers come by and then all of a sudden that 5 year creation that you are so proud of becomes a laughing stock to the world and gains a stigma of being crap.

I was always happy to see new creators make something and always wondered how people felt when they exploded with possitive reviews. And it also made me wonder what they felt when they woke up the next day to find everyone picking it apart in order to point out all of its flaws.

This is rambling now but what do you guys think? Has reviewers gotten out of hand. Or are they perfectly fine doing what they do. How far is too far and do you have any personal experiance dealing with a negative review or critique?

[TrustyShamrock]

yeahhh i agreeeee. tumblr has sooo much of it. i feel like the 1st thing i see is always a 4 paragraph essay about why someone liking someone else is sooo terrible and has a bad message and anyone who doesnt agree is trash. BUT on the flip side someone said once how much they hated one of my characters from my comic and insteada gettin insulted i for some reason just got really happy and complimented that they cared enough to hate my character that much. i mean if it was ALL hate all the time i guess id be really bummed. but a little bit is actually fun to see
also about SAO yeah i been seeing a butt load of hate for that lately! i really liked both seasons of SAO it kinda bums me out how much everyone is steppin on it. i mean kirito COULD maybe flirt less with every girl whos nice to him while also puttin on the whole "perfect boyfrand" act. but besides that

[gateofselidor]

I think humans have probably been doing this since the first stories were created. I bet people were hating on plays in Ancient Greece, and we probably criticised each other's cave paintings. The internet just makes it a lot more accessible and easy to do.

I think as long as it doesn't cross the line into trolling or harassment, it's fine. The creator doesn't have to look up reviews and forum threads, although I think it does them good to look at some of the criticism, because when a lot of people are complaining, there's usually a genuine reason for it buried amongst the usual internet anger.

For SAO specifically, I think there was a lot of anger because in the first half of season one, Asuna was a competent partner and generally came across as an equal to Kirito, and in the second half, she was reduced to a damsel in distress for a generic villain, and that was a big disappointment for many people. It's not until the final arc of the second season that she's really given a chance to shine again, while for Kirito, it's basically a non-stop power fantasy.

[carloswebcomic]

Welcome to the internet. When something is popular, people jump on the hate bandwagon to show that they are intellectually superior by pointing perceived flaws and errors.

This has been going on forever, even before the internet.
Business as usual as far as I'm concerned.

[J.Lovelace]

I may be wrong, but I guess it's because it's easier to point out flaws, than give reasons why a series is worth watching. It became a trend to complain, and for some reason people find it more interesting to read about why a series sucks and how it's taken apart by the critics, meanwhile positive reviews are seen as just okay or boring. Maybe because it's done in more comedic and sarcastic way. Take Angry Video Game Nerd or Honest Trailers for example.
Also we got a lot of stuff on the market now, and everything became easier to obtain. We don't have to limit ourselves to TV and shops like several years ago.
We can look everything up or download from the internet almost for free at any given time, so naturally people started to get picky.

[carloswebcomic]

I think it does them good to look at some of the criticism, because when a lot of people are complaining, there's usually a genuine reason

Problem is that if they are complaining to start with, why the hell are they reading?
I would be very careful to start taking these "criticisms" as they are usually part of a bandwagon people like to jump on.
Besides, it's your comic. You have no obligation to change it for the sake of some readers.
Pay too much attention and after a while, your comic is no longer yours.

[Mane]

I think it's because people are more moved to voice their opinion when their unhappy about something, as opposed to those who are content or simply okay with it, and that's why it seems that there is so much negativity on the internet. Yes you also have those that express enjoyment but I feel outrage, disappointment and critique tend to overshadow it.

As for critics, I suppose it comes with the territory, that you have to pay attention to every detail and notice all the flaws. A current example would be the Warcraft movie. I keep hearing that fans consider it a fun or okay action movie, but the critics are bagging on it big time. I haven't seen it myself, but I was somewhat looking forward to it without expecting too much, yet hearing about the reaction is discouraging.

[Delphonse]

That is what kind of worries me about a lot of stuff. I understand this has been going on since day 1 of creation lol and I am not popular enough to get bagged on. I was just curious of what other people though on the subject. As of late I have been doing my best to ignore negative comments about stuff. Even if I have watched it I always feel like the negative bandwagon makes me less enthusiastic about stuff I enjoy.

I am actually kind of excited to see the warcraft movie ^.^

[Greg_Dickson]

Unfortunately, this is just the kind of world we live in. It's really just human nature to do this kind of thing, especially in the age of social media where people really want their opinions to be heard and need some form of validation from others in order to boost their self esteem. It's not just media that has this problem, but everything. People bully others in school to feel superior. People tell others about the awful service they had one time at a restaurant to make sure others don't have the same experience, or people will complain about that neighbour dog next door that barks all day and won't shut the hell up to vent their anger and frustration, seeking some relief in the process. People express negative opinions for selfish reasons without thinking about how it hurts the people who put themselves out there every day, doing the best they can. On the other hand, sometimes our negative opinions are justified, and sometimes they do need to be expressed, but it's a fine line to walk that the billions of people in this world can't all come to a mutual agreement on. Everyone is just so different, so it's going to happen one way or another.

Really, the only way we can get over this, as much as we don't want to hear it, is to grow thick skin, and to not let the haters get you down. Just focus on the positive feedback you get, take criticism when it's constructive and helpful, and just do the best you can, and enjoy yourself as much as possible.

[miseryhunting]

I don't agree with this - most reviewers try to give a clear, fair picture of the product in question. This is how creative people and whole industries grow - by taking already existing things apart, analyzing them and then building something better. If you create something and put it out there you should expect feedback on it - negative or positive.
There is a whole other conversation on reviewing "popular things". I don't see it as a bad thing, especially as it could be pretty double standard opinion - reviewing is mutually beneficial and saying it's not okay to review something popular while other less known authors struggle to reach new audience is ungrateful.
It's not like there are even that many comic reviewers and most don't benefit from their channels.

[shazzbaa]

No, I don't think this is something that is "suddenly" happening that didn't happen before. I do have a problem when people feel the need to contact the creator directly and tell them what they don't like, which I think is more common now with social media, but reviews? I dunno, I think negative reviews are the APPROPRIATE response to being unhappy with a work. You just don't need to tell me if you don't like my stuff!

do you have any personal experiance dealing with a negative review or critique?

It's not common, but I have seen complaints about my work in other places. If what they don't like is something I'm proud of and believe is good, it's very easy to brush aside -- this just isn't the comic for them. If it's something I wasn't sure about or was afraid of messing up, it hurts to read. I wouldn't tell a creator "haha get a thicker skin!" but I would say it's important to be able to move on, or to just not read unkind complaints if they get to you. I talked to a friend when someone said something that got under my skin, and after that I was okay. And I save my readers' kindest comments to remind myself how much my work meant to someone.

What gets under my skin and really made me nervous to post my series let alone start it. [...] reviewers come by and then all of a sudden that 5 year creation that you are so proud of becomes a laughing stock to the world and gains a stigma of being crap.

I look at it a little differently!
There was one particular webcomic that a lot of my peers in college hated. I've seen some pretty intense negative reviews, and when I checked it out myself, I can see why. The strip updated daily but the art did not seem to improve over the course of years. The storylines, I was told, were clumsy and poorly handled; the characters, they said, were a poorly-written mess. My peers found it frustrating that a comic like that should be so popular, but I was inspired.
That comic was hated, sure, but it also had so many devoted, genuine fans. There were people who related to the poorly-written characters and were excited about the clumsy storylines. If that comic can have so much wrong with it and still resonate with people.... that means my work can resonate with someone too, even if I mess up. Even with all that negative press, this guy still had so many people who were grateful for his comic and loved his work unironically. That's really hopeful and cool, to me!

There are so many properties where it feels like "everyone" hates them, but that isn't true! "Everyone" doesn't hate Twilight; thousands of people love it, flaws and all. The trick is, who are you focusing on?

[sarrowsmith10]

How far is too far and do you have any personal experiance dealing with a negative review or critique?

I've certainly had negative reviews about Goblins of Razard, especially at the beginning. Mostly about the writing, but also about the art (characters very "posed" not very fluid, characters not making eye contact, etc.). But here's the thing. I asked for the reviews, because I desperately needed feedback. Real feedback. And I got it. It lead to a new writer joining the team (she is so so so so good!) and me really looking at my art and improving. I made leaps and bounds in the comic and I think the initial reviewers would be quite pleased with the changes that happened...

However, I sometimes see people still complain about the beginning and call out those same things, and that's endlessly frustrating. I want to scream I KNOW ALREADY. Read like 5 more pages and you'll be good... XD

Overall I think the good that comes out of the comic out weighs the bad. Although if you want to get actual useful feedback that you intend to actually use, its probably better to get it sooner, rather than 3 issues in... just say'n.

[Aspie_Gamer]

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about what some random internet nobody thinks of your series or your favorite manga/anime. Not everyone is going to like the same things. Also, with popular series, detractors are bound to come out of the woodwork and write short essays on how much they dislike said popular series though in some cases, their rambling isn't without facts to back it up. i.e the manga/anime Bleach for example has had plenty of people tear it apart on account of it being one of those series where things take forever to happen later on or so I've heard.

[Shanny8]

That's the whole point of it- it gets to the level where there is major trolling & harrassment coming from the haters. If you dont like something, fine...but extreme hating on someone else for having a different opinion/tastes is childish.

As far as SAO goes, the only storyarc I didnt care for was the "Excalibur"/flying Cthulu beasts one. It felt really pointless...

There was a big pow wow about this over Thursday & Friday on Twitter- on how the relationship dynamics between comics creators & and their fans are becoming crazy; it kind of kicks me because I'm one of those guys that is happy to have access to some of my fave creators, and I try to respect that...there was a time where you couldnt speak to your fave creator/writer/artist online. I dont want to go back to that, and I say that as a creator and as a fan of other creators.

[Niles]

'No one wants you to become an artist but everyone loves art!'

[Amymone]

For SAO specifically, I think there was a lot of anger because in the first half of season one, Asuna was a competent partner and generally came across as an equal to Kirito, and in the second half, she was reduced to a damsel in distress for a generic villain, and that was a big disappointment for many people. It's not until the final arc of the second season that she's really given a chance to shine again, while for Kirito, it's basically a non-stop power fantasy.

^ THIS and all of the fan-smother. I remember a few internet users, popular for reviews, criticism and analysis, said that their fans kept frequently pestering them to cover it, which is why they ended up covering it so negatively.

do you have any personal experience dealing with a negative review or critique?

Yeah, in fact I was just telling some other tapasticans yesterday about the hate I've received over the course of my comic. Most of the hate I get lands in my inbox, but I remember a time when these two haters (I think they were friends) tried to slam every single new chapter release that came out. At some point they reached a chapter that redirected them to my official site, and when they realized that I was thirty chapters ahead of my audience and the series was almost over, they completely gave up after that.

I dunno if their original goal was to get me to give up on my comic, or if they realized that hating thirty more chapters of the story was too much of a commitment, but what little they did do, did not effect the popularity of my comic.

[apurviance]

It seems like some people online are just complaining and calling it a review or critique.

• Critiques - These benefit the creator. Good critiques try to understand what the writer or artist wanted to
  accomplish, and then explains if they think the creator was successful and how things might be improved.

• Reviews - These benefit other readers, specifically ones who like things similar to the reviewer. Good reviews share what type of audience might enjoy the comic, why a comic is worth reading, or why it's "not my favorite".

• Complaining - This only benefits the person doing the belly aching. It's selfish and takes no effort.

[sarrowsmith10]

if they realized that hating thirty more chapters of the story was too much of a commitment,

I giggled at this. So much energy wasted in the hate.. haha. Way to troll them back Amy. and OMG what an awesome comic you have! * subs *