How to explain guys, that REAL rape is serious stuff and causes a victim REAL trauma? (longread)

unknown_user 2020-03-19 22:24:08 UTC #16

Haha. Of course, I'm not going to go and tell "rapist, don't rape!" to the criminals. I'm more than aware that people, who do sex-related things by force, understand only a language of force by themselves. What I'm trying to do is to talk with normal guys, who have lack of understanding on this topic (see the update of the main post ).

That's why I want to make them care in a bit more degree.

33rdCenturyCaveman 2020-03-19 22:24:22 UTC #17

It still.not compare to living in fear the way most every woman seems to do. Women have to be wary of every single man in their lives.

IdiotWithPencil 2020-03-19 22:28:06 UTC #18

that's literally misandry, what the heck?

look if women are living in fear 24/7 cause a guy might rape them then that says more about the woman who equates all males are rapists

look rape is horrible but let's not turn the coin like this and blame it all on men, and fear monger like this, it's not helpful and the only thing your gonna achieve is to disenfranchise 50% of the world population for what 1% does

unknown_user 2020-03-19 22:29:37 UTC #19

@33rdCenturyCaveman @IdiotWithPencil Rate between men's and women's chances to be an object of violence are all relative and depends on particular men and women and particular society.
It's just... particular guys around me never were in jail or in any other places, where they could experience a "joys" of being harassed or raped. I can't tell about the whole society.

Sorry, didn't understand what did you mean here.

33rdCenturyCaveman 2020-03-19 22:30:40 UTC #20

Me not blaming all men. But when women disguise themselves as men, one thing they notice is how much more personal space they get as men, even very effeminate ones.

IdiotWithPencil 2020-03-19 22:32:11 UTC #21

well I can affirm that here in Mexico it's worst like hella worst than in Venezuela XD

Venezuela rapist would go to court with black eyes and broken bones cause the police would break them and the prisoner would destroy them.

we hate rapist like crazy, and we as a culture disown any rapist, though we will make rape jokes and laught at the victims if we find it funny. we will laugh whill buying a bat to break the legs of the rapist

IdiotWithPencil 2020-03-19 22:36:19 UTC #22

sorry maybe I can't write that well so I use the grammer check, Empathetic is the word I was trying to use it came out wrong

I just mean him not relating to actual victims is a stretch, like I can't relate with being rape cause i haven't been raped is crazy cause humans have Empathy, unless you are a psyco or sociopath everybody can relate to one situation or another

maybe his way of relating isin't the same way you relate. His way could be by making jokes while yours is by taking it seriously

we are all flawd in some way and our coping mechanism are diverse

KidJake 2020-03-19 22:37:12 UTC #23

Somebody telling me that I'm not allowed to joke about something immediately makes me want to joke about it. It may offend some people, but the idea that I should be censored to appease someone else offends ME; so we arrive at a moral stale mate.

Whose offense takes precedent?

It's not your place to explain topeople the evils of no-no jokes. Tell them you don't find it funny, but unless they invite further discussion you aren't going to 'enlighten' anyone by lecturing them.

33rdCenturyCaveman 2020-03-19 22:40:37 UTC #24

Me am reminded of how famous insult comic Don Rickles was able to get away with it: by being completely genuine, radiating good will, and ragging on absolutely everybody.

unknown_user 2020-03-19 22:49:48 UTC #25

Ok, now I see what you meant. I hope you're right about him!

unknown_user 2020-03-19 22:50:58 UTC #26

I never tried to censor these jokes.

indagold 2020-03-19 23:10:16 UTC #27

I heard girl on girl abuse is even higher than heterosexual, i'm assuming because of the stigma.

Cavechan 2020-03-19 23:12:27 UTC #28

It sounds like some of what you're talking about has happened in the work place. I just have to say that there are some things that while may be okay around other groups of people, are 100% not okay in the work place. Unless it's relevant to something at work, why bring up rape at all? Just don't bring it up or even sex in general. These are serious issues and anybody could take something as sexual harassment which can have consequences. Another is putting hands on people for any reason. Just. Don't. Do It. It's really about workplace safety for everyone.

IdiotWithPencil 2020-03-19 23:38:15 UTC #29

the problem with that is that you are basically telling humans to be machined, look in the workplace is just like a highschool just with adults, and it stands to reason that some co-workers will feel more comfortable with other coworkers and start saying jokes they would normally not say(I know women do this too cause my sister makes jokes about her coworkers smell and attitudes constantly to another female co worker, even making fun of the marriage of one of them no really nice stuff but hey it's funny), they might offend another coworker by accident, but should that coworker be chastised for it? I don't think so

also sometimes one co-worker might want to go out with another one, it is normal when two people share a lot of time and space together that they might want to try something, now if they are persistent after being rejected or are using their position to convince you then yeah, get the hell out of there or complain to the high heavens.
just don't do it cause they touch you in a nonsexual way or said a stupid joke, that's not helpful and actually thanks to that right now women in the workplace are being negatively affected.

Cavechan 2020-03-19 23:55:06 UTC #30

To clarify, I'm not making any distinction between gender and it's not okay for anyone (I'm someone who has witnessed much more woman -> man harassment than man -> woman). I'm also not the person making these rules, I just try to obey them. Sexual harassment can be strict given the outrage of cancel culture and the like. I think it's better to err on the side of caution, unless you don't care about your job and like to live life on the edge.

I've known people in relationships who work together and from my experience it hasn't caused issues but it can also be considered sexual harassment. One of my past jobs was clear that you could not have a relationship with someone on the same team and especially not with someone in a superior position (since that could be seen as special treatment).

I also wouldn't really compare high school with work life since high school is a time when people start finding relationships and classmates are close with each other. It's not the same when you're getting paid to do work. Not to mention, you're supposed to be a responsible adult at this point so I would say there is more responsibility to not being seen as a creep and making an uncomfortable environment for others.

I also wouldn't say that this is saying that people need to be machined. I disagree with that completely. But there are rules. When your actions actually affect other people, that does matter. I'm all about having fun at work and I've had some really great times talking about podcasts, playing VR games, having office parties, playing with puppies, etc. There is a difference between good fun and potentially harmful or discomforting actions.

There is a line between censorship and freedom of speech and to be clear I am completely anti-censorship of any sort. But freedom of speech doesn't protect you against inciting violence against other people.

And, um, if you are in a relationship with someone at work... please don't try and do "stuff" at work. ffs, just do work. lol

IdiotWithPencil 2020-03-20 00:17:09 UTC #31

yeah, that's what I'm against and what is ultimately hurting women in the workplace these days. Managers are now on edge with women cause of cancel culture and are doing some very bad things just to avoid it, not coaching new hires, meetings can not be one on one(even if it's personal work related performance) and they will not be in a room alone with a women without a camera or another person. it's getting crazy right now.

there is a law against inciting violence on other people(like death threats and the like can and have gotten people in trouble), and there is also laws against enacting violence on other

yep agreed 100% do that at home or any other place, please

I guess we can agree on that I also say you should follow rules, but there should be some flexibility on both sides I think

unknown_user 2020-03-20 09:40:16 UTC #32

Nah.

I remember only ONE time during all my work experience, when me and colleague discussed that stuff in the work place.

That one was a big chatterbox and liked to discuss different news instead of working. That time he read news about drunk woman being raped and commented mockingly that if she would not want it, she wouldn't drink. I started to argue. One colleague joined the discussion, standing on his side, another one joined, standing on my side. When these people joined, discussion became loud and emotional and started to distract other people around from what they did, irritating them a lot. One of them told us to stop being loud, and team lead supported that request with irritation, which made us silent.
Since then, if a chatty guy tried to discuss any other news at workplace, team lead told him: "Do you have too much free time? I can give you a new task...", which made a guy silent immediately.

All others happened outside and off-hour, with people, who liked to chat with me by themselves.

Also, I have to note, that I never met harassment from any colleague in my life - neither at workplace, not out of it.

skicoak 2020-03-20 16:39:26 UTC #33

Understandable.

Human interaction isn't an exact science though (and you have noted on here before that you have had issues reading situations at times)...and humor is a particular minefield.

The lines of what offends individuals are set individually... So you're just guessing when you float a risky joke out there. We might say that as a "society" we have a unified concept by that's just bulllshit. Lol.

Does anybody else remember the wave of dead baby jokes that resurface from time to time?

DiegoPalacios 2020-03-20 17:12:42 UTC #34

Also, dark humor is extremely context sensitive. It has a right time to do it and a wrooooooooooong time to do it.

Kiweevil 2020-03-20 17:51:08 UTC #35

I'm glad you brought this up, this is a very important topic that I think more people should be aware of. But it's really not just guys who lack empathy towards the subject, some of the worst offenders are girls who completely misunderstand what rape is. I remember back when I was still in school, girls would tell me that if, for example, your boyfriend tickles you when you didn't ask for it, that's rape. Or if someone tries to hold your hand, plays with your hair, etc.

Sure it may be uncomfortable, and if it becomes a reoccurring offence it could be harassment, but it is completely insensitive to hear when you yourself have had....more....awful things happen to you. I get triggered all the time by insensitive jokes or accusations of this nature. I'm very thankful my partner and male friends do not behave in insensitive manners, I believe because they each know someone who has been impacted by this and care deeply for females in their life. I know for a fact if my partner saw anyone making rape jokes around me, he'd get furious and probably punch them in the gut. He has only sisters and has seen them deal with some real sht in that regard. Some men are very sensitive about this topic, as well.