I wish people brought in editors more often

[joe_galindez]

And not just because I'd be getting more work that way. I've noticed a cultural shift when it comes to content creation. Increasingly, creators are expected to do it alone.

It wasn't too long ago when you could buy a book or newspaper and be sure that you were getting a certain level of quality. That book would have gone through any number of editors and proofreaders. Same deal for what was in the paper. Publishing is so much easier these days (and we've never had the power to reach more people) but I can't help but feel that we lost something when we got rid of the gatekeepers. A sense of community, maybe.

Professional artists used to help each other more. They combined their strengths and compensated for one another's weaknesses. Nowadays we're forced to fail or succeed on our individual merits. We're only as good as our last mistake. We only grow for as long as we are able to see our own shortcomings.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Puppisama]

Kinda agree with you to a point, but certantly where you live matters, in my country, art is treated as "not very useful talent" so, education towards art is quite bad so is better to go independant and solo, there are not many places you can go to share or learn art, and those places are limited to a certain group, the most "public" art places are anime cons, and sadly, the lack of profesionalism kills the lil' bit of hope art has. Since art is not treated as something important, you're absolutely free to do with it whatever you want, but also means that nobody will see whats wrong with what you do to help you improve, also, the "self entitled critics of art" lack the lenguage to critize well, and in the end, they hurt or insult you instead of highlighting the flaws to get better.

[LordVincent]

Depends on what kind of editor we are talking about.

Some editors are helpful to creators or improve the projects. Tapas editors appear to be rather chill and choose a rather diverse range of content. Also on tapas there's a ladderlike system where anyone regardless of ethnicity, gender or sexuality can build a fanbase simply through good hard work and gain Tapas editors attention that way. People are chosen by the audiences, rather than someone picking it out for the audiences before they see any of the applicants.

Editors in the sense where artists help each other out or in indie projects is also a positive thing in my book.

Then on the other hand there are editors/"gatekeepers" that let their personal preference poison the industry and limit what kinds of content is allowed into the public. This goes mainly for the traditional publishing business where it's difficult for transgender individuals to be taken seriously, LGBT people have been left out for the most part until recent years, someone looking to work in comics is, depending on editors and gatekeepers, less likely to make it if they have dark skin, and here in sweden you can forget your dream and toss it to the sea if you draw manga styled content. A lot of this is based upon the elitistic role these people have gained throughout the years simply by being the gatekeepers. They delude themselves that their opinion and preference is of highest and unquestionable importance.

Then you have really shitty pushy editors like the ones in japanese manga industry. For example the dumb fuck that suggested Mini Moon should become a thing.

Basically, my opinion of editors is positive in regards to most webcomic related instances as well as in indie project groups where people work together out of passion. I have a very negative opinion of editors in traditional publishing business however.

[Kayke]

Any comic work I've done professionally (both art and writing) has still gone through the traditional ringer of editors, designers, marketing staff, etc. Granted, I'm working with a book publisher right now... but my limited experience in the indie comics sphere was the same. I never felt alone or without an editor. The lack of editing in newspapers and certain publishers might be a monetary thing, as print newspapers are not really doing great in this economy... and online news sources just want to have as many articles as they can so they can get more money from ads, so they don't care as much about editing or trimming the fat of their content.

As for finding feedback on personal projects, I feel like you can still get that feeling of professional community if you know where to look. I'm a member of a few facebook groups where artists give each other critiques and professional advice on the reg. And I also have some trusted old professors and classmates from my art school days who I ask for help whenever I need an extra set of eyes. And my partner acts as my proofreader and sounding board for my writing most of the time, one of the benefits of dating an english professor. And I do the same for any of them if they need my opinion on something!

It's all about making connections and finding your support system. I was lucky enough to make a lot of talented friends in school, but if you're starting from scratch trying to find friend-editors (frienditors?) it's probably easier now with the internet.

[joe_galindez]

@Puppisama, I get that not everyone is fortunate enough to land an apprenticeship, or major in art. But that's what editors are for. They have the skills to do these things themselves but they spend their time helping others do better.

@LordVincent, I do miss the idea that no matter who you are, and no matter how good you get, you'll still need an editor to hold you to your usual high standard.

@Kayke, I'm happy that you have this support system. I just wish that the artist's journey wasn't so haphazard. Too many people no longer see the value in apprenticeships or ongoing mentorships.

[keii4ii]

Too many people no longer see the value in apprenticeships or ongoing mentorships.

I don't know if that's true. I for one would love to have such a relationship, but the only person I trust for that happens to be suuuuper busy. For a lot of folks, it's just too hard to find someone you can trust with your own baby.

I don't mean trust as in "this person won't steal my ideas." I mean more like, "this person understands my goals, strengths and limitations, and knows how to help me work better." Maybe that's asking for too much, but I won't settle for anything less in a mentor/partner.

[NanettesClouds]

I don't think that's too much to ask, a good editor should deeply understand your work, and the context of other similar works, so that they can help you achieve your vision and bring out the best in your project

Imagine an editor who only reads fantasy, and then you give them a hard-technical-sci-fi story, that editor is going to instinctively turn your story into something more fantasy/escapist based like star wars, rather than helping you refine the technical concepts of your story. And if that editor is given too much power they will ultimately destroy your work in an attempt to make it suit their tastes better.

Or perhaps a different editor who reads a lot of stuff, but doesn't really dive deep into any particular genre, that editor will take your tech-scifi and water it down, they'll make you add in a romance subplot, an evil empire, a chase scene, alien Jesus, without understanding the place that you wanted your story to fit in within its genre.

TLDR: an editor is a lot more than a spell checker. So you should absolutelt find one that understands your work

[ISNEKO]

I'd probably be reviewing and offering service to independent authors here but since I also do a lot of work I just don't have the time.

I was able to beta read someone's work here for a novel she wanted to start and she was really happy to hear my thoughts and suggestions. Made me feel good too.

Feel like I can't really say anything on the subject that hasn't already been said though.

[NanettesClouds]

I think it would be neato to see more of the creators here posting threads offering various services, a couple weeks ago some artists posted looking for art assistant/colorist/line artist work. I imagine you could definitely find some editing/consultation/proofreading work if you made a post about it.

There seems to be a lot more non-native English speakers posting here on tap now too, and bad English can really hold back their work. So maybe this is something to consider a bit more?

[SpavVy]

I used to have an editor and it was the worst experience.
I don't trust anyone other than translators with my baby.

[gateofselidor]

I'd like to have at least a proofreader for my work, but I don't have anyone to ask and I can't really afford to pay someone, so I go it alone. I've worked professionally as a proofreader and translator, so my grasp of the English language is excellent and I can generally get away with it there, but it would be great to have feedback on broader matters like story structure, or on my art.

[joe_galindez]

Well, I'm game for that.

[revisionstudios]

I think it's less that creators are expected to do it alone and more that creators can't afford extra help. I've never seen anyone worth their salt look down on another creator for being part of a duo/team. If anything, good collaborations are often envied because it makes it easier on the creator.

Sometimes creators do impose these standards on themselves, or actively don't want someone like an editor--but to be honest? I think it's more about accessibility and availability. I don't think a lot of artists and writers know where to find indie editors. Most people here are THIRSTY for feedback and when you're all alone, it's easy to lose sight of if what you're doing is good or not.

I'm sure if you posted a thread that explained some of your specialties and what kind of editing you'd be offering, you'd get applications.

[Kura]

I have a friend that helps with edits for my because my English is not amazing. They point out for me a lot of things I have a habit of repeating wrong. It is very helpful but still not enough for me to make it without error. I do my best to correct when people point it out though.

[sarrowsmith10]

When the writer and I went to publish VSEPR, we were going to hire an editor. But we really didn't get enough money with our kickstarter to pay another person on the project, so we didn't do it. I definitely see the value in having an editor, and it goes beyond just proof reading. When I first started Goblins of Razard, I had an editor that I traded commission work for her time. She didn't just proof read, she checked the art (I had a bad habit of making swords appear out of nowhere because I kept forgetting to draw the sword at the hero's hip), she checked for consistent writing, and helped with the formatting and keeping me on track. A good editor is invested in the work, its a bit different than a beta or proof reader.

But ultimately it comes down to cost. I just can't afford to hire an editor.

[IdiotWithPencil]

I think everibody needs one friend who dosen't give a shit about their feelings, likes what you like and just tells you like it is : /
that should be the first person you show your comic or novel to (would save a lot of headache for most artist or web comics in this day and age)

[joe_galindez]

@keii4ii: How about an editor for the basic things?

@niah146: I don't know about editors who work like that, but that's not how I work at all. I can edit in a whole bunch of genres, but really it shouldn't matter because I focus on the fundamentals, on things common to every story.

@SpavVy: I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but there are other fis--I mean, editors in the sea.

@sarrowsmith10: One alternative might be to form a study circle. Each artist would be at roughly the same level as the others, but with a different mix of strengths and weaknesses.

[yondoloki]

I have a semi editor/proof reader. I don't know exactly what to call her, I usually say editor. She helps me out and checks my drafts, and gives me feedback on my story, mostly compositions and such, because I'm not that strong with them. I don't have any money to pay her though, but I made a deal that if my comic was ever to be translated into Japanese, she would have first dibs, since she's a translator. Maybe others can make trades like that?

[Testaccount]

To a point, I agree with this. I feel many creators don't care about producing a quality product anymore and will just publish something as-is. Then again, this isn't everyone. Personally, I only want to produce quality, and if that means hiring an editor, I will.

[scythe]

I don't see why you'd only be as good as your last mistake. That doesn't bear out with my experience of the world.

With webcomics, we're mostly amateurs, so hiring an editor just isn't on the cards. Besides, since we update in bits, it's very easy for readers to point out spelling mistakes or even language errors, which are quickly and easily updated on a continuing basis.