Is so-called "Asperger" really a disability?! (flood, rant and giant info dump about my personal life, which you probably didn't want to know)

sarrowsmith10 2020-01-30 19:00:55 UTC #2

My husband has dyslexia. He's had an IEP since childhood and its haunted him throughout his life. He is a very intelligent, bright man. He is intuitive and understands situations and people very quickly.

However, due to processing issues in his brain, his reading is very slow and he has trouble understanding the reading. He also is incapable of writing long essays without help and proof reading. He has ways to cope with this (text to talk functions on phones and whatnot). However, since his career includes a lot of writing, he would really struggle if people didn't know about his disability. This is because it makes him seem illiterate at times (which of course is not true at all).

He has 2 advanced degrees and almost 15 certifications. He doesn't really feel like dyslexia is a disability and certainly doesn't want to be treated differently, but he's glad he has the diagnosis for professional reasons and it has helped him get accommodations he desperately needed in academia.

I think the point I'm trying to make is, if getting an official diagnosis helps you manage and have better opportunities for work, maybe it might be a good thing? You don't have to shout it from the rooftops or post it on social media if you don't want to be framed a certain way. My husband doesn't talk about it unless someone asks him.

I don't have any relationship advice, but I do hope you find a way to manage. At least over the internet you seem like a very pleasant person to interact with.

33rdCenturyCaveman 2020-01-30 19:04:26 UTC #3

The term "differently-abled" am come to mind. Someone who am diff-abled am not dis-abled, They am not less than person. Can be as useful to self and society as anybody. Am merely being different, so understanding am required on occasion.

It like how gifted child can also being considered differently-abled. Am requiring special resources to reach full potential. Literally am being special-needs child.

Swamp 2020-01-30 19:06:50 UTC #4

So my context is being autism spectrum, and having a few physical and mental disabilities.

Disability is a social construct. What I mean by this is not that a person with one leg have a harder time running from a lion. What I mean is that what difficulties we consider disabilities is defined be technology, values, and culture.

For example, my girlfriend is pretty much blind without glasses, but with glasses, her vision is 20/20. But most people do not think of her glasses as an assistive device to correct a disability. 200 years ago, her vision would have severely limited her life. It would have been a disability. Now, few people would think of her glasses as an assistive device in the same way, say, my wheelchair is. Is a medical problem completely managed with medication a disability? Is disfiguration that leads to bullying but causes no medical issues a disability? Why are we more likely to see a young person who gets tired easily as 'disabled', but an old person as 'just old', even if they have the same limitations?

One of the biggest current conversations on this is in the deaf community. Some deaf people see themselves as disabled, unable to do something (hear) that limits their life and abilities. Other deaf people feel that, given proper accommodation, they do not have a disability and dislike the label. They see being deaf as being part of a culture and language, and the problems are with societies failure to acclimate to their needs.

My Aspec limits me. I have meltdowns, my sensory problems give me issues eating, I have trouble with basic skills I need to live independently. In these ways, it is a disability. But it also gives me a perspective I think is creative and valuable, and many of my limitations are not problems in a vacuum. There is no reality in which chronic pain or anxiety benefits my life, but their are realities in which buildings are designed for wheelchairs, not walking, where menus are simple and eye contact is taboo.

I guess what it comes down to is what is and isn't a disability isn't always an objective fact. It's about what terminology you find most helpful to acknowledge all the parts of your experience.

Kelheor 2020-01-30 19:08:24 UTC #5

I kinda agree, but I think one of the points tired_programmer is making is that the situation "people told you that you are a jerk, but then you throw your diagnosis in their faces and suddenly they are fine with you, because you are special, even if you are still a jerk" sounds unpleasant.
don't really want to go into the conversation here, just stating the idea

sarrowsmith10 2020-01-30 19:15:54 UTC #6

Yah, fair point. Doing things after the fact might not help (people are often too stubborn to admit their behavior/feelings towards a candidate was wrong), but perhaps for future interviews?

unknown_user 2020-01-30 19:36:12 UTC #7

Well, to be fair, they didn't say directly that I'm jerk. The host just gave me a feedback, that I wasn't a good member of a team, which lead to rejecting my candidature for continuing that job after the end of the internship. So I concluded that he didn't want to work with me.
Also, despite people at that job didn't try to get closer or understand me better, they stayed polite and helped when I required help. I don't think they're really bad, but neither they were really friendly. Just neutral, not caring about me.

unknown_user 2020-01-30 19:38:53 UTC #8

I'm too proud anyway to call myself disabled, even for a job. Besides:

For the most of other employers it will be just the opposite: the minus.
There are a lot of other employers, who need developers and researchers.

Kelheor 2020-01-30 19:39:12 UTC #9

Well, sure, it would be strange if they said plainly to your face something like that ^^ I mean, like, overall.
Maybe they were more neutral because it's a big corp, and they would be friendlier in a smaller company. But eh, who knows.

unknown_user 2020-01-30 19:40:21 UTC #10

Yes, it's hard for me to understand their real feelings, so I don't want to make anyone a villain. But they didn't want much to continue to work with me, that's for sure.

Swamp 2020-01-30 19:51:03 UTC #11

You can always talk about the issues without saying disability.

"Hey, I'm sorry if I came off rude earlier. I don't always pick up on social signals, so you if I'm making you uncomfortable, you need to be clear with me."

33rdCenturyCaveman 2020-01-30 19:52:41 UTC #12

If you am still having trouble relating to and communicating with people, am recommending writing, also fortune-telling. Firstly because writing am great for communication skills and mebbe thinking skills in general. When you am putting message on paper, there am constraints. Cannot use body language. Cannot use tone-of-voice. Can only use words, so quickly am becoming good with words. And when you am good with words, you am good with concepts, also meaning. It true what they am say, that writing am crystallized thought.

Secondly, fortune-telling am good for learning to read people. Nevermind supernatural association: it force you to read body language, to put own feet in footwear of strangers, to truly give shit about lives of others. Am not naturally-endowed with very many empathy, but practice of divination am teach me to feel what others am feeling. It very good for people testing high for sociopathic trait. Am now have good working theory-of-mind. Of course, am now also afflicted with Merlin Sickness, so it not all sunshine and rainbows.

unknown_user 2020-01-30 20:08:16 UTC #13

Thank you

I find a story about your husband interesting, thank you for sharing it.
I respect people who do what they love and don't give up on it, when they meet obstacles. It's a good thing that he found people, who take him adequately and understand his diagnosis in a correct way.
However, I'm not sure that all people are so understanding. For now, I feel it more safe if they will learn about my peculiarities gradually, and without calling it disability.

vothnthorvaldson 2020-01-30 20:11:14 UTC #14

Everyone has different symptoms, and different thresholds to call something a disability (everyone has a disability of some sort, but if it can be overcome, will not call themselves disabled). Also, even high functioning autism comes in various degrees of functioning.

I consider myself disabled, both because autism made me miss many opportunities, and more clearly and undeniably, because my stimming is so bad it is directly affecting my performances even for the simpliest task.

Freemints30 2020-01-30 20:17:12 UTC #15

I can pretty much relate to this in quite alot of ways. I didn't know until years later, that my mother and my father was called to school because the teacher thought because of my behavior (always avoiding contact, very bad reactions when people touch me, bursting into tears very easily and very very very rarely smiling) she though I was being abused. They had to explain I was always this way so it's just the way I am, my face is always "serious" even I may be having a good time. I know I can spend hours and hours on topics like cats if people let me and I only figured out I was considered weird and to some "not very smart"(thats the nicest way I could say it) when I was in high school. When I read about Asperger it does make alot sense but I would not diagnose myself with it simply because I'm not a professional. I still have issues with communication and not making other awkward talking to me, but I'm handling things good with or with out diagnosis. I understand why I was never taken in for much, simply because unfortunately around my area being disabled in any way simply means "never going to amount to anything ". Which is what I think was the reason when my sister was ask to be taken to a professional for suspected ADHD my mother refused and just helped her focus on stuff she was good at, thou I think she might have done much better academically if she had extra tutoring.

darthmongoose 2020-01-30 20:33:42 UTC #16

I'm in the middle of pursuing an official diagnosis, and my reason is I'm too good at masking, so people don't always necessarily realise there's anything different about me, or they just think I'm aloof, nervous, fussy or morally inflexible and obsessed with following rules to the letter. But I can make eye contact (takes a little effort, feels weirdly emotionally intimate with strangers, but I can do it), make small talk, I understand and can use sarcasm and metaphors, I can make myself presentable, and many of my "special interests" are things people would consider "classy", like yeah, I can actually regurgitate a huge amount of information about Warhammer 40k, which people find weird coming from a 35 year old woman in a nice smart-casual dress, but I can also infodump about Shakespeare or History, which people don't find weird.

Once in a blue moon, I'll get overstimulated and people get really unsettled as a normally very calm, polite, soft spoken person just SNAPS and goes on a tirade or busts out crying. It happens rarely enough that it really shocks people when it happens. The worst one is people thinking I'm blanking them because they don't realise I can't always process voices over background noise, so they might call to me and I won't hear them.

So yeah, I actually totally understand how you feel about some people on the spectrum. I don't like people who use it as an excuse to act like a spoiled brat or draw attention to themselves, or who talk like every autistic person is a widdle baby who needs to be allowed to be disruptive and to never be criticised . I don't live with my parents, I have a fiance, I have a job. I keep clean and dress appropriately for what I'm doing, I try to make small talk and I apologise if I find out I was accidentally rude to people.
Sometimes I struggle when I'm overwhelmed, but overall, I'm a pretty functional adult woman, and if I'm able to rest my brain now and then and keep my life organised using reminders and schedules, I can act so neurotypical a lot of people wouldn't even know that I could summarise the entire plot of Homestuck from memory.

I want the diagnosis but not because I view my brain's different structure as a "disability"; on the contrary, I find there are a number of advantages. I'm a fast, highly efficient, focused worker with skills in logical reasoning and creative problem solving that my employers value. If somebody needs to find a file, I know where it is, or I'll know what key words to search to find it. If somebody needs a funny joke about a really esoteric, specialist subject, they come to me. I don't care about office politics, I only care about doing a good job, because doing good work and interesting things stimulates my brain, while small talk and staring at people's eyeballs doesn't.
So why get the diagnosis? Because it is really hard to explain sometimes that the lights are really giving you a headache or you want to spend your lunch hour on your own not talking to people (I've been talking to people all morning! Give me a moment's peace to recharge! Please!) not because you hate them but because you don't want to snap at them, or that you won't remember anything a person just said unless it's written down, or the fun day in the office where there's music on isn't fun, it's actually a bit too loud and hard to concentrate, and having a piece of paper that says "Yo, I'm autistic, please give me a little understanding, I sometimes work in a way that seems kooky, but I can be a really productive and fun person if you give me a shot." can be super helpful.
Give me some tinted glasses for the lights, a nice quiet place to spend lunch, don't ask me to do morally questionable things, let me write everything down or send written notes and let me wear my headphones and I'm the model worker; punctual, polite, productive, creative, good public speaker with a brain like an encyclopaedia, but have multiple people talking to me at once, make me juggle tasks, ask me to do things that might hurt vulnerable people or break laws or regulations, expect me to wear high heels and mascara and spend all my lunchtimes making smalltalk and I'll be snappy or morose, demotivated, spaced out, inefficient, pedantic and I'll get paralysed trying to decide which tasks to do or forget a bunch of them.

unknown_user 2020-01-30 20:38:41 UTC #17

There are so many answers. They are interesting, but I can't respond right now. I'll talk to you later guys

33rdCenturyCaveman 2020-01-30 20:39:57 UTC #18

This thread am like that scene in Spaceballs when Rick Moranis character am say, "How many Assholes we got on this ship, anyhow?"

unknown_user 2020-01-30 22:13:23 UTC #19

That's true. I'd say more. I think that in the future, when people will learn to make cyber prostheses, comparable to real limbs by their functional, people without legs and arms will not feel disabled either.
Of course, it will not go smoothly. All high-tech things prone to discharge and break from time to time. Yet, real limbs also get tired (i.e. our of energy, too) and can be damaged. Even if high tech replacements be inconvenient in some aspects, I think that they will also have their advantages, and - of course! - look cool.

Yes, people with Asperger syndrome look at things differently and originally. Not only they can learn from "normal" people; "normal" people also can learn from them. However, it's sad to hear about your limitations. It sounds bad. I hope you'll find a way to deal with them and improve the quality of your life.

It works this way for you, but not for all people. Sometimes even clever people are much more biased and less open-minded about it. If someone is called "disabled", people easily get up on that person and treat that person like a hopeless case, like a person will never overcome their limitation. Because nowadays it's considered as something irredeemable, which will be with you during all of your life. And I know that many people highly underestimate ability of people with autism and Asperger syndrome to integrate into society.

unknown_user 2020-01-30 22:16:58 UTC #20

Yes, I think it's a good thing to do. The most complicated part is to realize the problem in time and formulate it in the way, which will be understandable by other people.

ChristodeBoyet 2020-01-30 22:26:35 UTC #21

As someone diagnosed at the young age of 11 with 'Asperger's Syndrome' I would agree that it is not a disability. I was aware of my issues even before then. From a large part of my younger life, my mother tried hard for me, and she really cared. But, after I was diagnosed, I was treated differently in school, people acted as though I were mentally handicapped and incapable of understanding certain things. I was not, I understood things fairly easily, my only issues were social cues. I had issues making friends from a young age, I would always say something out of place or tell a hard truth that they didn't like and that drove them away. I felt bad about it, but that's as far as it went and I moved on. Once I learned about 'Asperger's Syndrome' I researched it and pinpointed things I could work on. I worked hard over the years and now i'm out of school and people can't tell i'm an aspie one bit.

Here's some of thing of the things I did. My first goal was to make friends and be able to talk and keep a convo flowing in a good tone. So, I went out and made friends with people that I assumed were 'popular' or generally outgoing and seemed to hold a good convo with other people. They usually used many different expressions while talking. Thus, I picked up on different social cues from watching them. At this point, I can sometimes even tell when someone lies to me. It is actually good to hold eye contact, but as intimate as it feels, I learned to just stare between the brow when talking to someone I don't know. Second and this plays into the first, I wanted people to feel comfortable around me. I picked up smiling for the sake of smiling, playing a fool, joking around whenever I could. People don't take me as serious most of the time and that's what I want. Socially, i'm just fine these days and have plenty of people to talk to now. I still have my sensory problems though. That's fine! If you can't handle light, wear a hat. Can't handle noise, headphones. Can't handle stuff touching you, wear a soft jacket and soft clothes. Most places allow these without you even having to say anything about it.

My main point though, is that I don't believe Asperger's is a disability, but it totally helps to be aware and accept that you have something that you can work on. I still get nervous no matter what I do and I for one don't enjoy meaningless conversation. Others do though and I like making the people around me happy, so I compensate for that. If it means accepting that I have Asperger's and that it's a fundamental flaw for me, then so be it, I consider it a point of pride these days. It's forced me to work harder than others, but also helped me to develop into my own person. I've also picked up a few tricks I doubt I would know now without it.