Is vigilantism hurting fandom?

[akitsukino]

Quarantine lead me down a dark path of doomscrolling through fandom Twitter. I never interact, but I do lurk for hours trying to find sense in the madness. When a fandom thing is criticized one argument I see is this: “Oh, are you saying I’m a bad person because I like X?” At first I thought this was silly. Why should you let the idea of being a bad person stop you from engaging in the conversation? But then I thought...

Isn’t the topic of “bad person” what starts a lot of internet mobs?

Think about it. When a picture/movie/comic etc. has something “problematic” in it the conversation can quickly turn from “This work has troubling portrayals of things and we should criticize it” into “The person who made this is a sick freak and we need to find their address and make sure they never sleep in peace again.” And it usually happens on smaller scales, too. You can’t harass the director of your favorite blockbuster movie the same way you can harass a small time fan artist.

Vigilante justice seems cool on the surface. You’re taking the law into your own hands when the powers that be (in this case probably social media sites) won’t do anything, but I think the problem with it is that it can be directed in the wrong places. Sometimes actual predators are outed and that’s one less person around who can hurt people. But other times mistakes are made and you have mobs taking out the wrong person.

It’s times like these that I really have to wonder if the people who do this really care about the issue of being critical of the work we make and consume or if this a “power” thing. There’s science that says that the same parts of your brain that regulate anger are the same parts that regulate excitement and arousal, so in the same way that someone can get “addicted” to pr0n you could hypothetically get addicted to Twitter drama. So are the people who start some of these dramas actually calling for change or are they riding an adrenaline high fueled by self-righteousness that makes them feel vindicated in stomping on people who they think have done wrong?

Probably the worst thing about all this is that it might not really keep anyone “safe.” There are cases in the real world where vigilante mobs get the wrong person where the actual perpetrator stays out there. So you have groups of people patting themselves on the back thinking they did a good thing while the victims of the predators could still be suffering. And considering how easy it is to pretend to be a good person on the internet, more and more awful people fly under the radar when they learn the “rules.”

Fandom has changed so much over the years. I won’t say things were “better” back in the early 2000s (they probably weren’t), but I will say that things were smaller. The giant scale that fandom operates on nowadays makes it hard to tell how many of these issues are “real issues” and how many are just overblown cases that look big out of context. It makes you wonder if fandom was always THIS crazy but some of us just never noticed because it wasn’t happening on this big of scale. But I wonder if that’s just the curse of all big communities both on and off the internet.

Thoughts?

[Freemints30]

Its dumb and it has always have been.

It existed in the early 2010 when tumbler was popular and it exists now. Electronic Dragon's recollection on early Harry potter and Hamilton showed me adults have too much free time.

Stupid crap like liking "problematic ship" or characters or fic tropes being your noose are just stupid. (majority of times being done to teenagers) And are out right, in my opinions, pathetic when being done by grown ass adults. Ironic coming from me but people should go outside, life doesn't end just because people like fics and tropes you don;t like

People should calm down.

But who care, twitter is filled with the worst people so best you just ride out the stupidity.

Overall unless the people are confirmed and convicted predators', I don't care. I will like my trashy fics and characters and I don't care if another like writes garbage on AO3 that makes me want to die on the inside.

I ain't going after them like some dime store batman

[WillowTree]

It’s mostly ridiculous virtue signaling. People can write what they want to write, just tag it correctly. It’s those who get all bent out of shape because they think certain subjects shouldn’t be written about at all since in real life they’re obviously morally wrong. Most fan fiction writers who’ve been around awhile just roll their eyes and delete the comments from virtue signalers, it’s those who are younger and new to writing at all that get hurt and insecure whenever these people decide to target them.

[WinterFall]

In Fandoms, there will always be toxic people. Sadly, we can never get rid of them.

They always say random crap that can awaken the "inner toxicity" of a fanbase. Their ignorance grows and grows until it comes to the point where they start hating on characters just because their favorite character didn't win first in a popularity poll. I say this as an example of fandom toxicity, but this actually happens a lot of times. I'll be blunt; it's quite annoying.

Anyway, fandom toxicity takes on a lot of forms, be it on social platforms or in real life. We really can't get rid of toxic people spitting out ignorant things over tiny details. Fanfictions, tropes, ships, the characters, the plot of the story, and so many other things. Twitter is just one of the many social platforms that toxic "fans" use to post their toxic and mindless comments. Honestly, in the "worst cases", they don't even act like fans anymore. They force their opinions on other people. It's not proper.

I don't like participating in things like these. I mean, who'd want to join a heap of toxicity? Not me. It's dumb and unnecessary.

[indagold]

All fandoms have been toxic since the dawn of man...Internet makes it just easier to see. At least on twitter it's in text, in real life some people get murdered over things like sports ball.

[bakasama25]

Are you talking about people that don't fit a certain profile?

[NickRowler]

Fandoms have always been toxic and I feel you are looking at the "early 2000" with rose color glasses. The mere amount of gatekeeping in anime and gaming was insane. Like to the point where male gamers thought girls didn't play games. Girl who did were sometimes bullied for being "fake" or "posers".

With anime, people were often bullied over ships, this was super common in the Naruto fandom. I once had a fan threaten to hit me because I said I didn't mind SakuraXSasuke. Naruto and InuYasha were also targets for gatekeeping in the general anime fandoms, with people claiming that "Narutards were not real anime fans" and that kind of crap.

And I could go on long rant about how toxic the My Little Pony fandom became in it's peak.

[aqua03]

And I could go on long rant about how toxic the My Little Pony fandom became in it's peak.

Don't even get me started on the "Princess Twilight" fiasco.....

[rajillustration]

I wouldn't call it vigilantism rather than just someone wanting to freakin FIGHT. Like that's always been around, and I feel like it's very much a very vocal minority within fandoms, but they're so vocal, they give everyone in the fandom a bad wrap. And like this is just my personal opinion, but the people most opinionated about this stuff don't watch the show or read the books.

Like it's kinda weird but a lot of people prefer reading fanfic to reading the source material. Like I have a friend who is like--die hard loves Naruto. She has never actually watched or read it. She just likes the fics. (YEAH) Luckily that friend of mine doesn't go on rampages. She does recommend me some wild fics though (recent one was a MHA fic where everyone was a ghost hunter and it's like...girl have you watched My Hero Academia??? and she was like "nah, it's too violent.")

But I see the rampagers in fandoms around town and they get crazy intense about ships that never happened canonically. They stretch certain parts of the story until it's framed like abuse (so like I used to enjoy Once Upon a Time because it's a hot mess, and Captain Hook was kind of 500 years old, and then dated our main character who's like in her 20's and so people were like "I can't get around the age difference!" and it's like--the actor is 20!!! It's a fantasy TV show with Neverland in it, why are you pretending he can go to jail!? It's two consenting adults!) And I could go off about all the hilariously bad takes I have seen, but most of the crazy intense "It's time to cancel the fandom!!!" mobs have just...they do not understand the source material, they're very ignorant, and there's no reason to fight them.

So like I tend to block people like that on sight--if you're just trying to fight people by using whatever hot take you can muster, it doesn't matter the fandom you're in, you don't know how to consume literature. Like at all.

[gmaximin]

You guys got me really curious now! My daughter’s into My little pony, what can possibly create major drama there... (social system aside)

To revert back on subject, when you take a step back, all these internet drama can be more fun to watch than soap... when they spill into real life, less so funny, but nothing new for sure. internet just gives more amplitude...
That being said, I do feel that people gets into clan faster than before, no much debate anymore, no communication or exchange, but position to stand behind. It’s not just fandom... it’s not just online either... it’s quite international too... and it’s quite sad...

[aqua03]

Yeah, I'm probably gonna need to relook it back up considering it happened late 2012 early 2013, but it was a wildfire when it happened. I'll see if I can find a good summary of it in the near future.

[Freemints30]

As a person involved in my little pony back in the day.

Twlight sparkle became an alicorn princess and people didn't like it cus it looks over notes

"made her a mary sue"

"Made alicorns less impressive and cool"

"I hate this plot point and ending cus its different "

Really one of the more boring controversy in the fandom. I mean compared to the derpy thing and the fandom stuff produced "Cupcakes, banned from equstria game...some of the people really thought those ponies were hot and were..obessed, that scam kick starter dating game made to scam and troll the fandom" It was small potatoes.

MLP fandom was wild and damn beautiful at times ngl

[akitsukino]

If you’ve got an hour to kill there’s always this!

[VibrantFox]

NGL i hope this topic doesn't last because i think there's a stark contrast between internet "which hunts" where people make up drama to attack people versus accountability for genuinely wrong or harmful actions and the differences between the two really need to be recognized.

I could talk ad nauseum about all the stuff that most of us I'm sure were exposed to at a young age and thus normalized so now when new younger fans speak up about their discomfort or concern or when former fans who are now adults speak up about those concerns or the genuine harm being caused or committed everyone starts screaming "cancel culture" at the top of their lungs

I'd go into specific details but I know for a fact I'd probably get mobbed and I refuse to deal with whatever hypothetical metaphorical poo that would be flung at me.

The long and short of it though is that some fandom drama really is unnecessary but other "fandom drama" isn't really fandom drama but there are people who refuse to acknowledge it or are so deep in the koolaid that they'd never listen to reason or truths of the matter.

[akitsukino]

I think this right here is the thing that also concerns me. There are a lot of people in fandom‘s, say, really popular fan artists and the like, who genuinely have done some pretty awful things in the past, but then there are cases where those people have publicly admitted to those things, apologized for them, and moved on only to have those things getting brought up again so the whole drama starts over again.

This is one of the things I mentioned about how big fandom is right now. I think a lot of people who were fans did go through some crazy stuff back in the early 2000s where is nowadays people are a little bit more comfortable talking about it. I think it’s just maybe a sense of constant vigilance for this kind of thing has made it hard to discern when something really is just “drama” and when there is an actual problem that needs to be addressed. I feel like discernment is getting harder.

[VibrantFox]

I do agree that there are times where the discernment is an issue but there are also some of those rare cases where a person will have made some kind of formal apology but still repeat their actions (and I've personally been a witness to this kind of thing)

One thing I think is when it comes to matters where a person apologized and said they've changes and their actions reflect that sometimes they don't rescind those incriminating statements or whatever they've apologized for. It's still just floating about. Obviously they can't go hunting down every reposted piece of work or scrub the files of those who've saved stuff but at the least if it is dragged up again I think it'd be best to just reshare their previously apology or re-apologize.

Like I'm a firm believer that there's zero harm just saying sorry again even if you already have in the past, it's a bare minimum. If anything I'm kind of wary of folks who complain when they keep having to say sorry because I've watched those folks sometimes just go right back to the thing they were called out for. But every case is different of course.

I think there's also matters where things are dragged out and put in public when they don't need to be so it's yet another matter of discerning "does this need to be put into a public spotlight or can this be handled in private". Some things really would be better handled behind closed doors but there are other matters where a public ousting is necessary especially when those who are a part of whatever small group aren't hearing things and the one being called out is causing serious harm. Just hink of the many many different predators/groomers/abusers in certain spaces that have been called out recently where victims spoke out but close friends of the abuser just brushed things of or gave the classic "they're just like that" and then on top of that fans of those people refused to listen and harassed the people who were hurt.

Sometimes it's about not finding some of the fine lines or "understanding nuances of a situation" but other times there really is more to it. No not everyone is going to look into things but it's bad to generalize and say accountability and baseless callouts are one in the same yet it happens all the time.

[Inspector_Spinda]

It totally depends on the situation. Of course there are terrible version of every type of person. I remember someone complain sailor moon was white washed because she is a blonde Japanese and they “corrected” fanart by coloring her with dark hair.

[GesuGesu]

I just don't participate in fandoms and just consume the media as the creator presents it...

Too much to deal with.

[rajillustration]

Oh--if this is about like specific predators in fandoms, I feel like that's a whole different thing (before I thought you were just talking about fandom's trying to go to war with other parts of the fandom for like...speculative things within the story they invented or didn't agree with) Like a dangerous person is just a dangerous person--once you equate them with a fandom, you're giving them power they shouldn't have had in the first place. Kinda like wolves in sheep's clothing if you will.

Thing is, you gotta be so, so careful with how you deal with these people, especially if you're dealing with a dangerous person, they're going to react in a dangerous way. Like they can straight up sue you for damages (which has happened from people who've been outed on twitter for predatory behavior) and then it's just a nightmare of litigation. So like...twitter mobs...aren't really a replacement for the justice system.