Is Webtoon changing?

[graveweaver]

Both of you have valid points, capitalism can stifle artistic freedom. But at the same time, in a capitalist society, much art could not even exist without funding. The money provided from these companies directly creates art that might not have ever existed without the money provided. And the alternative is a free-for-all society where money doesnt exist and everyone is free to do as they like, but then, would people even see value in art anymore if literally everyone was free to dedicate their lives to it? Its worth looking at both sides of the coin.

*edited to abide to community guidelines.

[punkarsenic]

(from the user guidelines)

im an anticapitalist and im not interested in an impromptu debate about my stance, i dont think these conversations are productive and theyre definitely not fun

[vynru73]

To take this out of a political debate and back into the situation with Webtoons specifically:

I’ve thought about this business vs story thing too ever since I saw a certain episode in Lookism. I’m not sure where it was exactly, one of the earlier episodes anyway (before the main heroine was neglected— before she was even introduced). In a few frames there was graffiti on the wall and sticky notes in backgrounds with texts like “you should add a main heroine”, “why isn’t there a main heroine” and stuff like that, and I believe the text was also crossed out or disagreed with in some way? It seemed to me that it was the author showing their frustration with editor’s/Webtoons comments. I don’t think it’s bad for businesses to... well... do business, but it might still be good to be talking about these kinds of things (featured contracts— whether authors should take them or not when given the opportunity). Working with a big company like Webtoon has a lot of benefits, of course, and I’m sure that most authors are extremely happy with their advice and coaching (and income, lol), but some authors might not understand what they’re getting themselves into, and that shared copyright also means they won’t have complete ownership over their story anymore. If there’s someone hyper-obsessed with their story being exactly the way they personally want it to be, I would think they’d be better off making comics as a side job (at least at first— there are plenty of self-publishing options too).

[baasinsimple]

im an anticapitalist and im not interested in an impromptu debate about my stance, i dont think these conversations are productive and theyre definitely not fun

Your misinterpreting what I'm saying though. I agree with and as I said earlier

I agree

Honestly you seem to be looking at the first sentence rather than my entire comment or just refusing to address the contents of that comment and being slightly defensive in a way.

I agree with your stance I wasn't bickering as much as I'm having a conversation. What I'm asking is what would you do to help change that? Because honestly I'm not too fond of any governmental or economical system, but what, honestly would we change even if we did actually say something? Again the only thing I was saying is that I don't think we'd change anything. People who actually give a damn about artistic integrity are a small minority of people, everyone else wants to A) Make money and B) Consume content they like and like it or not, Businesses, even in some morally dubious ways supply that. You said earlier that people shouldn't just sit there and accept it but honestly, even if I think your right, I don't think there's anyway to do that.

This was never political for me, seems to me the only one making it political is you.

[punkarsenic]

i dunno if its been clear but ive been trying to back out of this discussion for several posts by not engaging with what youre saying and explicitly stating that i dont want to have a discussion

i have counterarguments to your questions, but im tired and dont want to have this conversation right now

[vynru73]

@graveweaver Wow, that is much better than I thought it was! Congratulations as well!
Then I am guessing the thing with Lookism was more of an exception than the standard. I still wonder what was going on there, though

[baasinsimple]

Cool with me, I just wanted to hammer out my intentions and it seemed like you where being defensive. It's completely cool if you have answers to my questions. See you on the flipside.

[vynru73]

I didn’t think about the difference between countries, that seems like a very logical explanation! Or maybe the Lookism author was simply exceptionally stubborn about Webtoon’s advice haha.

I just read in your earlier comments that you’ve chosen to compromise on a muted color scheme for your Webtoon instead of black/white (what you wanted) or color (what they wanted). Do you think they would’ve insisted if you had refused to do any kind of compromise whatsoever? (although I do have agree that stubbornly refusing any change while you’re getting paid to draw isn’t exactly the best manners— it’s what I’d be tempted to do though haha, so I’ll be sticking to self-publishing even IF I got so popular to get an opportunity like that)

[vynru73]

That seems very logical. Good that they discuss those things in advance. Seems way better than I thought it was! (I was worrying it might be like Britain’s Got Talent’s contract at first— although I don’t even know if that was a hoax on itself haha). Anyways, I’m definitely going to check out your Webtoon! It’s fun how this forum seems to somehow be for both Tapas and Webtoon at times.

[denaliah]

I'm guessing if your work is seen as "good enough" to be featured the editors should have a degree of trust in your story. But I wouldn't put it past them to see "potential" in it for audience pandering things like pushing the romance when your story was supposed to be something else. I think they're just suggestions to the author if they want to boost their popularity on their site, BUT they aren't obligated to take their suggestions...I think. Though depending on the editor, some of the might be more pushy about it than others. The popular vs niche comics seem to come in waves I find, it may change in the future though. Sometimes I'm worried that my story isn't mainstream OR niche enough...ugh, but we'll see later when more stuff happens in my story since I haven't even scratched the surface yet. But I do realize webtoon peeps care ALOT about shipping...even though my story's main focus isn't even shipping.

Tapas cares about small creators? I'm a smallish creator, when did they care about me? lol XD

[skicoak]

Tapas cares about small creators? I'm a smallish creator, when did they care about me? lol XD

Preach denaliah, preach!

I noticed an addition to the language of the front page categories, now even the popular and trending categories are "curated". That's a new hurdle for the small folk.

[denaliah]

Really they're curated now rather than algorithmic? Ugh...oh god please no.

[skicoak]

Really they're curated now rather than algorithmic? Ugh...oh god please no.

The language made it seem like there's still an algorithm but the comics fed into it are curated somehow.

A quote from a M. Son post...."So, the Trending + Top Charts and other select sections are algorithmically generated based on an editorially curated list."

[Zugaikotsu]

Like as if there is already a selected amount, then, amongst those, the algorythm generates who will appear in front page?

[skicoak]

That's how I'm reading it.

You could always do the beetlejuice thing and summon him for clarification.

[joannekwan]

I thought he mentioned they'll start curating popular a bit so it's not flooded with BL and romance every day.

[Lolliebye]

WOW! CONGRATS ON making it this far! ^_^

[skicoak]

I thought he mentioned they'll start curating popular a bit so it's not flooded with BL and romance every day.

That doesn't really make much sense either, to be honest.

Is the sixth, and lower, most popular BL titles gonna be blocked from trending or something? They're gonna curate popular titles OUT of trending? Because he specifically mentions "Trending+Too Charts".

[Akhdas]

Also I've been seeing that some (I won't say many because they are just people I know irl) people are noticing that webtoon is just featuring popular comics now. They used to be about creativity and what they loved, but it now seems that theyre more into gaining a bit more money. This I completely understand! But now with new policies theyve grown more and more money centered, it's not about all the comics now. Its just about earning more.

I mean, what kind of company isn't about money anyway? As for the editor and story part, it's been like that since eons i don't know why is this such a big news to anyone. They want their comic to sell, of course they'll fit the story with whatever sells the most.