1 / 18
Jan 2023

Basically the Dedicated Drama Thread (DDT) is for when drama starts in another thread, so you take it to the DDT in order to prevent the original thread from being derailed. 'Drama' being a discussion that:

  • is off topic (doesn't contribute to the purpose of the original thread), and
  • people have trouble ignoring without leaving a bad taste in their mouth (and thus drawing people into this discussion/making them unable to participate in the original discussion without also participating in this discussion)

Maybe that's a bad idea? Maybe people won't even go along with it and migrate the discussion? Maybe it'll straight up make things worse in some way? idk, what do you think? XD

tentative rules for a hypothetical DDT just to get it out of my head

1) Only discuss drama that's migrated from another thread

If you want to discuss a particular topic that you believe will be flamebaity, start your own thread. The primary purpose of this thread is to protect other threads from going off-topic :]

2) Read and address what other people have already said during the discussion

For instance, don't be B in the following:

A: There are problems with just doing D, such as X, Y and Z
B: Why don't you just do D?

.

A: I think people arguing for E were being unnecessarily hostile in X, Y, Z ways
B: No-one arguing for E was bashing anyone. We were being incredibly patient and reasonable.

Instead, either concede that A has a point about X, Y or Z, explain why X, Y or Z is wrong, or leave the discussion.

  • created

    Jan '23
  • last reply

    Mar '23
  • 17

    replies

  • 1.0k

    views

  • 11

    users

  • 57

    likes

The problem I see is that most people who cause drama don't realize (or don't want to admit :smirk:) that they're causing drama. But I hope the idea works out ^^

Haha, true ... People seem to be good at recognizing when other people are causing drama though, so I guess I was thinking whenever someone sees drama and feels the urge to join in, they can just go 'okay guys, let's take this to the Drama Thread' :stuck_out_tongue:

I think the problem is, much like the old venting threads we used to have, is that it'll start out fine and civil and people will follow the rules to read and adress everything, it'll just as quickly descend into chaos and go too far. I mean, theoretically, I'm all for a place where people can actually vent or have more heated discussions. I always have places that shut down even luke warm discussions, nevermind actual disagreements and arguments even if they're civil (I think as long as people aren't doing things like name calling and getting personal, there's nothing wrong with people having even heated disagreements) but in my experience places dedicated to this, tends to turn toxic pretty quickly without a lot of moderation and then that sort of ends up defeating the purpose in the first place.

Hmmm ... gotcha :sweat_02: I guess me turning this idea around in my head is mostly just a release for frustration; it kind of sucks when I get involved in drama and someone responds to me with a well-reasoned, nuanced comment that I nevertheless don't entirely agree with, but the thread gets closed before I can respond :sweat_01:

I could like it, but it feels like uncritically accepting everything they said, or I could ignore it, which makes me feel like a jerk who's dismissing them or just someone who's salty about 'losing' the argument XD My fingers will itch to reply, but I can't :'D

Have you been in those situations? How do you usually handle them? :stuck_out_tongue:

Hmm...
Personally I wouldn't participate in that thread because I'm pretty sure I'll get toxic five seconds in(gotta stop myself from causing online wars). Usually when I'm angry at other online people I try to calm down, and if I can't, well, I go ahead and be salty if I have to. Sometimes I shut up and take the insults, but that doesn't really happen often :sweat_smile:

I feel like this would just encourage the drama to continue?

Like... most of the time when drama happens, it's because people won't just leave it alone. Everyone wants to jump in and give their two cents on the issue or say "YEAH!!! THIS!!!" even though everything of note has already been said. There are people on this forum who practically never post except when somebody they dislike has said something they disagree with that leaves an opening to "take them down a peg". Springing up like mushrooms because they basically just lurk except when there's drama, or they get told there's drama on a discord or similar and jump right in.

Sometimes the only way for the drama to stop is to have somebody say "Can we just stop talking about this off-topic sideline?" or "Look ,we're obviously not going to agree on this, let's just drop it". The only times I've ever effectively managed to resolve thread drama, it's been by taking it to DMs or discord where, uninterrupted and without an audience to exaggerate what's been said, or "agree" in a way that misrepresents the actual feelings on each side, the subject can be talked through and an understanding can be reached. Sometimes the understanding is "We can't agree, so let's just leave each other alone," and sometimes it's more productive like "Oh, I see how that was upsetting! Sorry! I get where you're coming from now."

I'm not sure how moving the drama into another thread so everyone can talk about it more really helps anyone, it just satisfies a desire to wallow in the drama and pick it apart and draw it out. It's just a way of having a tool to tell people you want to shut down, "I think you're being dramatic and that your opinion is irrelevant, you should go sit on the naughty step." while giving it a veneer of responsibility that makes you look like a good citizen just keeping the forum tidy! Do you really think moving a trans person who is upset about JK Rowling and transphobe defending her into another thread will result in anything more than just insults being flung? It's not going to lead to reconciliation; it's just milking the drama for entertainment.

I get that when the resolution to the drama happens out of view... or like... the drama is never resolved, or the drama ends before you have the chance to work through your feelings about it or voice your opinion on it, it can feel frustrating... but that's how things have to be, sometimes. It's like how a 24 hour news cycle dwelling on every last little detail of an event and social media wanting every single celebrity to give their opinion on it might be entertaining and appeal to human nature... but it's not healthy. If you do need to scratch the itch, take it to a private discord to get it out your system, or even... talk to the people in private, try to understand on a more human level outside of the public circus.

Haha no I totally get that. Story time:

Just the other side of Christmas I was talking in a discord server with a few other writers about somethings we didn't enjoy in a book we were reading together. Someone got uppity about it, applied it to their own writing, said we were being bitches and putting other people off of using these things and there are new writers in the chat who're probably really discouraged now. I responded seriously, addressing the entire thing to the entire chat that if you like something, you should write it and not let the opinions of a few people speaking about a specific book in a random server put you off, and that you'll enjoy writing what you love a lot more than chasing trends or trying to please everyone. The same person replied that I was telling people how to feel , that some people value engagement with their work and I should be more considerate of people's feelings about that and that it's fine if I write for myself and what I enjoy but some people rely on external validation and I should respect that. Apparently write what you enjoy was a hot take now. A mod stepped in at that point and shut the discussion down politely shut it down. I know the mod well, we're pretty good friends so I know that sometimes mods have just gotta do mod stuff and shut it down no matter who they agree with but it was frustrating to be forced to leave it on that note because that felt a lot like I was just letting them have the last word and accepting their premise, which I know it wasn't and hopefully anyone with sense knew that too, but it was that feeling there.

Personally I ended up just bitching in the mod's DMs when they assured me they popped in to let me know they weren't trying to put a stop to discussions like that, just didn't wnat it getting nasty in that moment. It's always frustrating to have conversations shut down mid-arguement, especially if it's not actually that nasty or is still just a disagreement, so having someone to the side to vent to is always always useful but other than that, I've not found any real solution.

I guess I assumed there would be fewer insults being flung than what was already being flung in the original thread (because of added rules in the Drama Thread), but I guess it does feel kind of like a 'naughty step' that people can banish others to without going there themselves :'D

Now that I think about it, even if the discussion is still taking place elsewhere, if it's not visible on the original thread, I guess your opinion is still effectively being shut down as far as people only participating in the original thread are concerned ... I guess no matter how it ends (migrating the discussion, mod shutdown, etc), someone is going to have the 'last word'

I feel uncomfortable discussing sensitive topics in private because people I've known (not from this forum) have used it to intimidate me into shutting up, whereas I never had people do that to me in a public discussion (I suspect because they have more of a fear of looking like a jerk). I still think my fears are legit, but maybe my own itch to clown around in the public circus is playing at least some role in my preference for public discussions ...

Yeah, I'm mostly salty about when the argument is not actually nasty and I actually respect the other person and care about what they think, which makes me feel bad about just moving on from their latest reply without any reaction because I don't want them to think I'm dismissing them :sob: I do also feel salty about letting someone I respect less 'get the last word', but I recognise that's kind of childish so I try not to indulge that brand of salt :'D

It´s a great idea, the problem is that it will never work :stuck_out_tongue:

In situations like this, I also usually take it to DMs.

Like "Hey, just sending a message to say I thought you made a good point in that thread. Hope you're doing okay, you seemed pretty upset there."

It quickly becomes apparent who was there just for drama and who was there because they genuinely care about whatever they're saying if you talk to them in private to get a sense for where they're at when it's not a rhetorical debate club with an audience, just them and their personal feelings on the subject, and also pay attention to one simple thing:

Which forum members are ONLY present in threads where there's drama, and which ones offer help, advice, guidance or discuss their work in other threads?

I really wish more people would notice this really obvious pattern. It's obvious who the drama-makers are. They're the ones who literally only post on threads to disagree about controversial subjects or add fuel to the fire by riling people up, misrepresent people's opinions or name tag them into their responses to drag people back in to keep things going. This is why a drama thread can't work, because these people will appear every time there's a disagreement to tell anyone they disagree with, "You're getting too emotional and causing drama. Look at how unreasonable you're being! Oh dear! Go to the drama thread right now!" because they thrive on those kinds of rhetorical tricks, like undermining somebody with an opposing viewpoint by reframing them as "creating drama". Because they're not on the forums to talk about comics or novels, they view it more like an ideological turf war.

Idk I honestly would just like to give it a try for the sake of trying but I agree it prob won't work out :sweat_smile:

My biggest problem with the drama is that it derails fun threads and it gets shut down before more people get to post anything. I feel like a lot of the ",drama people" are on twitter a lot cause they'll respond so fast as if the forms are their life like - bruh I'm sorry I only really have time to chat once a day. I can't respond every damn time. and I feel like other people can't respond as quickly as the people chasing drama want them to.

The biggest thing really is I'm totally here FOR the debate. I like seeing people work out their issues and come to a conclusion even if the conclusion is "agree to disagree" cause it's nice to get different perspectives. Which is why I usually try to advocate for people... Like... You know MAKING a thread FOR that debate. Rather then having an agreement about if Disney or warner bros is the most evil company in the "what's your favorite food" thread. I mean it's a silly debate but it's always a chance I might learn something.... It's just... Also completely running the "what's your favorite food" thread

I think it'd be cool to have, maybe, a polite debate thread. Assuming we could actually keep it civil. I enjoy a good debate, and often find myself gaining a lot of respect for those I'm debating with, even if we don't always agree. But I feel like the purpose of any debate should be to offer our own views as well as being open to others. Else it's just pointless banter.

I also admit I get pulled into (cause?) drama a lot and I do apologize, it's not intentional. I suppose I'm sort of sensitive to certain topics that have to do with discrimination and human equality. Things like that. And sometimes I want to help educate someone on something they might not see because I'm concerned their rhetoric may be harmful, especially to younger people who are surely about here. It's so hard to try and sound non-aggressive through text though, and figuring out how to voice your thoughts on something without coming off as preachy or what have you.

Most drama that I've seen and partook in was a result of the actual subject of the thread, though, so I don't know how moving it would work.

I think when it gets to a point of just being insulting though, there's nowhere to go. When folks start strawmanning or slinging insults, there's no discussion. No learning on either side.

Some drama is healthy and natural. It's how we progress as a society. Some is just poison.

People have made new threads to talk about drama in other threads in the past. These get shut down very quickly because they only perpetuate hurt feelings and heated arguments.

As for a catch-all thread, I would foresee it spiraling out of control fairly quickly as you'll have new people jump in without the context of the previous thread. And more often than not, people often let their emotions do the typing once things get heated. This is why threads get locked, to let people simmer down.

Just gonna say that... totally unhealthy. Let's not turn this forum into a Twitter or a Reddit. Oh god... especially not Reddit.

Yeah, when I thought of doing this my first thought was 'there's no way this hasn't been done before', so I wanted to see what people thought of it; esp. mods and people who have been here long enough to see patterns in how drama has been handled in the past :stuck_out_tongue:

I guess this thread was a bit of an indirect vent thread anyways; a nice meta discussion about drama to shake off the salt XD Thanks for the discussion :stuck_out_tongue:

Back in the day we had a thread like that......

After a while it exploded because some folks know how to be passive aggressive in a way that doesn't constitute a flag.

1 month later

closed Mar 5, '23

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.