Kindle Vella Update

[cherrystark]

Hey! For anyone interested or potentially interested in putting your work up on Vella - here is what I've learned so far.

• You CAN put your Tapas novel up, but it HAS to be taken down from Tapas before you do.

• The review "bots" are a headache but if you fight for your denied chapter, you can get it approved.

• If the idea of "serials" scares you, don't worry. Your work is "technically" a serial. You know how to think in terms of seasons, scheduling your work out in installments, etc. You CAN do it and because you are used to the amount of time and energy it takes to commit to webfiction, you can do well at it.

• It's open to all genres. So even if your little sci-fi series doesn't do well on other sites, Amazon is a level playing field.

• If you go explore the Vella Facebook groups, ignore the noise. A lot of them (I call them Karens) are still thinking in terms of "novels". If the idea of 80, 90, or more episodes doesn't scare you, you've got a leg up on a lot of other writers out there.

Best of luck.

*Edit: The FB groups are craziness! We have been blocked by some people because they didn't want to listen to things like you have to committ to the long haul for your series. Some people are already planning on failling and pulling their series off after a few months.

[therosesword]

@cherrystark you are being WAY tooooooo nice about the FB groups.

1. Think Karens as in suburban housewives with "clubhouse" get togethers and phone trees to strategize working on Vella when none of them have... any expertise in serialization (they had to research it) and ... no one knows what Vella's really going to do.

2. A couple people actually put on seminars for $$ to teach people how to write for Vella... when no one knew what Vella was.

3. They talk about hiring editors to go over their work first (nothing wrong with that) because, if it the five chapters they put up on Vella don't do well, they're turn it into a book.

4. We have noticed that the original people doing serials that were offering help have all pretty much disappeared as they have all been ignored or... banned from some of the pages.

5. Karens don't like the truth.

6. A lot of them make "clueless" look like an intellectual high point.

If you know what you're doing... there's chance to make bank here.

Seriously though, if you hook up with some of the variety of FB pages, Discord, Twitter, Instagram whatever that is going on... buy some popcorn.

There are people giving really good advice, but.... with your experience here, you can rely on that experience serving you well, if not better than some of the advice. And really, don't take advice from someone who has never done serial work... I think I've been supporting Orville Reddinbacher and his grandkids.

The big problem, for those of you with big pieces up here (and you have to be in the US) is that you'll have to take it down from here and that's a heck of a lot of work. But, if you've got something else...

OH OH... they (the karens) also don't get the idea that consistently putting up new chapters is the key to getting somewhere. Putting up 5 or even twenty and waiting to see what happens... well, we all know about that.

[Crusoe]

As I'm a person who writes for fun I prefer platforms not limiting where I can post/repost. But the best of luck to all who are going to try it! Hopefully it'll work out well for you.

[MaeRose]

Is it still US authors only? (I can envision the 'Karens' you speak of btw )

[rajillustration]

It sounds really interesting, I would just feel pretty bad about putting all my eggs into one basket, especially if I don't have an audience yet. I can imagine for more established authors this is pretty good news though--no longer have to manage like 4 websites.

[therosesword]

yeah, still US at this time.

[therosesword]

Vella is letting people have their work up on other paying sites but no freebees. They did change their tune though, as at one time they said if your work was "ever" free it was a no-go, but now it's okay to put it up if you take it down from a free site. The best thing to do, if you do that, is to take it down and wait about a week (a couple people say a day or two but I'm more cautious) and then put it up.

The non-serializers are going nuts. A couple people were excited because they'd been contacted by another platform to write for them... like we all would get in our comments. they thought they were being tagged as ... exceptional? I guess. I did get on the thread and point out that this does happen to us here on tapas all the time and they need to do their due diligence. I was very polite and careful 'cuz the karens aren't fond of my reality, and the woman who put the thread up blocked any more comment. Don't know if that was because of me or not but...

Cherry and I and a couple other people keep messaging each other with facepalm gifs.

One guy recently said he'd put a few episodes up and then wait and see if anyone read them... he had no intention of going any further than that, unless someone read them.

I've put up my two seasons of Bright Morn, 60 episodes first, 90 the second, for binge readers and the third will be scheduled. That way when Vella opens and they (hopefully) stumble across mine they'll see 150 episodes ready to read and another 100+ down the pike that will be doled out on a schedule so I can work on season 4.

These guys don't "get" consistency. Nor to they "get" patience. I think they all think it's going to be success overnight.

Vella wants episodes to be between 600 and 5,000 words. so if you've got something that's a little on the longer side you could break it down.

oh.... vella has a problem with erotica so be prepared.

Oh, one person asked if there were sub-plots in serials.

[rajillustration]

I imagine being a reader I'd be a little wary of following something that hasn't had a consistent schedule for a while--especially if I'm paying money for it. This facebook group sure sounds like a facebook group (so glad I left facebook)

[therosesword]

That's what we keep telling these guys, but there are a huge amount of "book" authors and they can't really wrap their brains around the whole "serial" thing. I've tried to point out that sometimes people will read, bookmark, and come back weeks later when new chapters are put up and... goes over the top of their heads. Nope. They're planning on starting a story and putting up a few episodes and if not enough success (whatever their idea is of that) they won't write any more.

And then there are a few that are planning on putting up so much that you think... how are you going to pace yourself? 10 serials... really????

A huge chunk of them won't listen to you, so.... for serializers who have been knocking around Tapas and have a decent body of work amassed... could be a good thing.

There's the ones that, even though they've never tried a genre, will go with what's trending because "that's what will sell." Well, if they've got a good story, yeah, but... Cherry and I remind them... bring your best game, write what you write the best, then experiment.

Sometimes it's like being in a writing 101 class. sigh.

There are a lot of different groups off of FB but frankly? It sounds like they're all the same. some of them have chats... chats with people who none of them know what they're doing and it's alllll speculation, my ears hurt thinking about it.

I know, I'm repeating myself... apologies... we're just kinda stoopified by it all.

[cherrystark]

I originally left FB for my mental health but kept chat because that's where my family chat is.

I imagine being a reader I'd be a little wary of following something that hasn't had a consistent schedule for a while--especially if I'm paying money for it.

As a reader, I like having a consistent schedule to or at the very least knowing "the plan", like if more seasons were planned so I'd still around. There are people insisting upon scheduling though the site isn't live and only want to try 19-20 episodes. I understand being nervous but one guy I asked straight out if he was planning on failing. Yes, I was a little blunt but I know so many people here who work hard for months to be build readership here and these people want to bail before it goes live. Like @therosesword said, we're stoopified. We've met tons of amazing artists here who could do great on Vella and the people on the groups have a foot out the door.

[rajillustration]

does it cost anything to post an update there? I don't really see any other reason they would bail, unless they had options pop up from another publisher. Or do they just feel burned?

[cherrystark]

Nope. You just set up an account and start posting. The only "difference" between there and here posting wise is that every chapter is reviewed before it goes live. The only reason that I can see is that they don't think people will actually read serialized fiction online or would be willing to pay for it. It's all confusing

[thetalentedmrwulf]

All I can figure is that these are authors that are pretty sure they’ve gamified the algorithm for their keywords that they have very particular ebook release schedules, hype windows, et al and no experience at serial release windows. Release a title with a social media promo, get immediate hype and reviews, release a new one in 30-45 days, with the previous book sales dropping to next to nothing once initial hype fades.

I tried that for a little while but hated the feel of that schedule and wasn’t keen on the specific marketing style that was the succeeding format of the most prolific ebook writers and pulled everything off of Amazon.

[therosesword]

have you got something up there or are contemplating something. I'm not sure how they're going to do vella, none of us are, really, so @cherrystark and I don't even bother talking abouit it... it is what it is... but we feel that the ones that drop out or don't adhere to serializing format, etc. might be dropped byt amazon leaving the field open for the more experienced people.

, with the previous book sales dropping to next to nothing once initial hype fades.

So that's why a bunch of those writers have a bunch of books that all look alike and have a certain air of "pulp fiction/penny dreadful" to them.

[cherrystark]

Maybe? Who knows? I wish them the best but I can definitely see why the model you described wouldn't work for serials. One of the things I learned here was to always be uploading. If readers like what you've posted, they'll keep reading but they have to have something to read.

*A few writers get it. Some have mentioned that, as readers, they want enough content to enjoy the original story and still get all the fluffy goodness that fanfiction offers. They want it both. haha

[thetalentedmrwulf]

I WAS thinking about it. Quick backstory - I started writing the serials that turned into all the stuff for a single shared world since shortly after 2001, and started posted it on random websites like Livejournal and Tumblr and my own site for awhile. At one point, I wasn't getting a ton of traction and hadn't found any good sites that really consolidated serials like there are now, and turned them into collected volumes, studied the Amazon algorithm, posted them, and... the entire experience kind of sucked? I'm been in sales/marketing for over 23 years now and that market is wildly unstable, and wasn't a good content fit besides.

I'm... leery of Vella because I don't know that I want to be a part of whatever weird hyper commercial meat grinder Amazon is going to try and cultivate there, where you're dependent on them for any income and readership you get. One of those "make customer loyal to the delivery method not the writer" deals that Amazon is really good at. I'm really happy with the community here, as I try to sand decades of sales nonsense off of my personality. (A year of being unemployed and in quarantine with bad immune system is helping break bad social habits that way.)

So that's why a bunch of those writers have a bunch of books that all look alike and have a certain air of "pulp fiction/penny dreadful" to them

Yep! The whole marketing trick they work is to build themselves a specific keyword niche with covers that almost all look the exact same and release new work just as the previous book's new story smell wears off. There are extensive guides out there for what keywords are best to milk in what combinations. It's that real gross nitty gritty part of marketing.

[therosesword]

Is the old stuff you had still posted somewhere, just throw that up, it's bound to be better that some of the stuff these guys are talking about. If you've got something about 60 episodes long that should be good and you can back out. Both @cherrystark and I are with Fictionate.me. Not much money, yet, but they do work for the authors, they've highlighted Cherry on different sites and today they did one of my pieces.

[rajillustration]

almost all look the exact same and release new work just as the previous book's new story smell wears off. There are extensive guides out there for what keywords are best to milk in what combinations. It's that real gross nitty gritty part of marketing.

Waiiit--is that why we have all those weird ass erotica books on Amazon that look like a bunch of recently trending topics squished together???

[thetalentedmrwulf]

I'll definitely think about it. While I'm happy with the idea of making money from Amazon, I'm not super fond of their business practices, and I might just stick with posting on here and Royal Road (I was thinking about Inkspired) and others and resurrecting Patreon and Youtube channels to back them up. Do audio versions maybe? I have mid-level recording office set up, but I live in the sticks so my internet isn't fast enough to do streaming worth a dang.) I will check out Fictionate.me

[therosesword]

totally get it. We'll be making comments now and then that don't have anything to do with the karens..... shudder.