My opinion as someone lgbt is most romance stories are pretty garbage to be honest, only thing that sets bl/gl/lgbt different is people try to pass it off as transgressive and radical...no your slash fanfiction between harry potter and draco isn't lgbt activism lmfao. Also i've read a ton of really messed up stuff by non straight people that I wanna purge from my brain and make lgbt people look bad so I dont think its entirely a straight person issue anymore. I want to live in a world where making an lgbt story is just seen as equal to heterosexual and can be criticized as such instead of acting like it's pushing boundaries.
Anyway since i'll promo my comic, main character is bi and other characters are lgbt as well. A lot of it is focused on more darker explorations of identity through metaphorical journeys relating to not only being lgbt but suffering mental illness, societal expectations etc.
As a gay man, I think there is a whole other issue with the sentence "if your gay story makes the gays uncomfortable you are doing something wrong" in its self.
The problem here is that within the community itself - at least that's my experience when talking about it - there is the same generalisation going on that non LGBTQ people "from the outside" practice. Putting the taste of a whole community which is based on something so vague and (ideally) diconnected from personality like sexuality. (The thing I am refering here to is gay men, which I believe to be the most represented part of the community, to a big part probably thanks to the straight yaoi fanbase you described. When it comes to other underrepresented groups within the queer community, then I can't speak off them.)
For me, I really like typical yaoi. I love the romanticised look on it - I love stories in which people fall in love and just... become happy together. I love that. And which stories I enjoy or not are rarely connected to the type of "good" or "bad" representation. Mostly honestly on story and how attractive I find the involved parties. And when someone tries to tell me they are bad and inaccurately presenting a sub-group, I often can't help to be annoyed at the arrogance to tell me how I want to see myself portrayed or how my homosexuality should dictate what works of fictions I should be allowed to enjoy.
No. Fuck you.
I once saw a Youtube video by some guy - and he talked about how ignoring acts of discrimination and stigmatisation in gay stories (which is typical of yaoi where societal problems are either largely ignored or simply glanced at) is invalidating the community or something to that degree.
I don't like nitty gritty real stories about active discrimination against gay men, at least most of the time. I go into different stories with a different mindset. I wouldn't read Art Spiegelmann's Maus with the same motivation as an old Mickey Mouse comic.
When I want to read something romantic, I don't want all this real life issues in a story. I want to read something that proves to me that love prevails and will defeat anything, because I really think that.
There is also one reason why I don't usually enjoy gay romance stories written by actual gay men, even though they themselves should be and ARE the authority on representation.
Sex.
Maybe it is just the case that I haven't read enough, but a trend I have encountered is that when written by gay men, actual sex plays a far greater roll then when a younger straight female group writes it. Needless to say, I prefer the romantic, safer kind of stories. When I want to see people fucking I read/watch porn.
Another problem I have with the kind of representation often seen as good, accurate or progressive is that it often comes down to the perfect little faggot, to say it bluntly. I hate that - yet that's a very common trope for some stupid reason, I feel like. The best example would be all those people who scream bad representation of the gays at Hazbin Hotel. And why? Because the openly gay character was fucking INTERESTING! But he was an asshole, no, we can't have that.
This whole idea of respectful representation has led to the idea that people of a certain minority can't be anything other than the victim in any case. The flaws they have are purely sympathetic flaws most of the time, like depression or trauma, which are things that - in my opinion - don't ground a character well. There was at least one case in the show RWBY in which the writers decided to not make one character out themselves in episode, because there were kind of a dick and not so nice. If I am completely honest, I think this is way worse than the villain queer coding that went on in old Disney movies.
If good representation means boring, I think I would rather not be represented.
And this whole don't represent US like this - no. Please don't just think you can patronize the whole community because you are gay. Not a single gay man on earth can say anything that will please everyone, because people are to diverse for that.
The same sexuality or identity does not equal same personality or opinions! That goes in both directions and it annoys me everytime.
I hate it when people think I think something because other gay men think it, and I hate it when my straight friends take me as an example and think that because something is okay and fine with me, that means no other gay will take offence or something.
I thin it's especially bad when straight cis people or whoever get offended on my behalf for anything gay related. I had a guy I know tell me that the term for gay was too vulgar to say, that it was a term of insult and it should not be used to describe gay people - so he said homosexual. I don't like that word in normal conversation - Are you h o m o s e x u a l? is a horrible question, makes it sound like a disease. I told I am just gay and I didn't like the word - but in his trial to not be discriminatory it just turned into patronization and basically told me that he knows better how to treat the group I am a part of than me.
That's a whole different thing - I don't think there can be complete represesantation of any group based on something like this. Because who are you to tell me how I want what I stand for to be represented?
I want evil people, just downright unsympathetic people who are gay in my stories - and without this whole "We need to show the good as well!!1!" stuff. I know queer people who just... suck.
There are two people in my life I hate, and one of them is a bisexual woman. She has a character I despise. Why the hell should people like her anyway because she is a sexual minority?
The whole idea that every person of any group in a fictional story is seen as a representation of the whole group is what bugs me. I think that's what should be taught - not always show the best side.
Sexuality is not directly linked to personality. Except for boring people.
People can be assholes.
Let people in stories be assholes, please.
(Also, the way the first person said how homo isn't used as a normal conversatinal adjective - it is. Maybe not where you are and with the people you have contact with, which is totally fine and understandable - but I use it with other gay people, also because the usage of words like this are different depending on the cultural room. The fact that a common term for same sex marriage in Germany is simply "Homo Marriage" does not mean it's a form of aggression or supression or anything. It's just the term, used by gays and straights alike. Again, not everybody of course.
But when two people out of a hundred think something is bad or offensive - maybe don't simply take their word as gospel. And even if half of a group dislike something - the other half can still think it's good, great even!
We (yes I know I wrote earlier that I don't like the term, but - simplicity's sake) need to remember that we ourselve WITHIN the minority we are, are still a minority. The fact that someone doesn't see an issue with something you find problematic or may even see it in a positive lighting does not mean this person is delusional. It means they just have a different world view and view of themselves with different priorities.
(Also, depending on with what you take an issue - maybe the real problem is that you should just grow a backbone.)
Don't think you can speak for everyone of your gender or your sexuality. Please don't.
This rant reminds me on when the "Politically Correct Cops" tried to get rid of Speedy Gonzales for being racist, but were foiled by outcrys from the Hispanic community. I'm not saying that as a negative thing, but I've heard a lot of contradicting stuff when it comes to "You shouldn't do this because it's offensive to -blank- minority!!" vs. Said minority actually not having a problem with the thing. Which then the people in that minority who call them out get's totally ignored because they don't fit the politically correct group's ideals of how that minority should act.
Even though I'm not a BL creator, and am not the target of this, I feel totally called out for my LGBT+ mental health comic.
I think you're talking about normal queer escapism stories, which exist in BL and queer stories (regardless of the orientation of people writing)
Because BL is porn, fetish porn, and if you're reading BL to avoid porn well.....
Granted it is and has been being rebranded (mostly by the LGBTQ+ community) to not be just fetish porn and include more escapism stories, and stories that are just gay romance without the need for sex. (which is one of the the reasons why it's a debate in the LGBTQ+ community) But, yeah, it started as porn/fetish, and is still a porn/fetish but has ALSO evolved into other non-fetish just romance rep branches.
Vaguely going off the discussion some people started around the categories here on tapas, I think I've stated this before but the site would benefit from adding a gl genre and an lgbt genre. Mostly for the sake of their own appearance. Having a bl genre but no gl genre makes it look like the site is actively trying to erase lesbians - which it sin't btw, the site has promoted GL comics since long before they added the bl genre. I'd argue they promoted GL stories since before the bl uprise truly hit them at all. So basically they need the appearance of the site to match their actual approach to lgbt content.
Another reason we need a gl and lgbt genre is so that consumers of that content can more easily find what they're looking for. I often say a big part in making lesbian or trans representative content more visible is actually making it yourself, but another primary part is the ability to be found. GL has tons of consumers waiting to find it, many of them already on the site consuming BL as we speak! You would be surprised to see how much of the BL fanbase is lesbian women or bi/pan women in lesbian relationships.
All of that being said, and turning back to the topic itself, I think I would still label most of my content as BL going forward. Mainly because the problem with bl is not an inherit one, but a cultural one. It can be changed if enough progressive content is added to the batch, and through that we can change expectations and the perception the consumers of the genre have of the gay community.
You don't need to be lgbt+ to produce progressive, positive gay content. All you need is to be educated.
Being lgbt also doesn't mean everything you make is automatically positive for the gay community. Lord knows there are some active content producers on, say, youtube.... who give homophobic/transphobic people a LOT of ammunition in their desperation to be accepted by bigots and nazis as "one of the few good lgbt folks".
Putting that aside, I think many of us gay people can count at least a few major mistakes we made in the stories we wrote when we were younger. Young people do dumb shit, and I think that's worth keeping in mind in general when you analyze some of the bl content in webcomics today. Young people don't understand relationships properly yet.
The same can't be said for professionally published yaoi where they use blood as lube. No excuses accepted there.
19 days later
I'm nonbinary and I only write worlds where everyone is nonbinary and pansexual, like... I don't see gender, I wouldn't be able to process writing a character with a gender.
But I give them male bodies to appeal to BL fans, just because most of the things I watch are BL/ikemen focused things...
I don't know if people would call my characters good "representations" or not, but I really don't care. They're not stereotypes. They don't represent what typical BL writers think males should be. They don't represent any gender, gay or hetero or anything. They're just people with no labels...
I don't see gender either. It's not common for me to see people with the same characteristic, even in non binary people, so, that's nice to see you're one like that 
. I'd love to write a story about it, but I'm not sure if there would be a public. I wonder if people who see gender would like to know how it is to live without this perception. Or if other people like me would like to know if my experience is the same or different.
I mean, my stories are just fantasy mystery things. I don't think that many people would really... notice that my characters don't stand around going "rawr I'm a manly man" or whatever, I want it to be like, they just notice later. They just go, "oh, hmm... that character didn't have any problems dressing like that."
Oh sorry, I was not meaning 'like you, I would like to write a story about'... I understood yours is not about that. I was merely musing about the idea of writing such a story, because reading your message made me suddently remember that I'm not the only one with such a weird characteristic 
This is what I was referring to, like. My stories do have a world with no gender, but I don't think that makes them inaccessible.
Oh, ok! Sorry for the misunderstanding.
My worlds are always mainly genderless too.
I was thinking of a story about the experience of a person like us, that being the main topic. That's where is the misunderstanding.
I'll add your story is my list to read (although I'll probably won't be able to read right away).
It seems the LGBTQ+ category is not quite working yet--except for very popular comics. Listed my comic there, but it didn't show up.
Are you sure? It worked for me. I posted up Vee, updated it and voila, there it was. The banner on the main page is for the promoted works that you had to apply to Tapas for.
8 days later
Living in mexico and can confirm people here are still pissed off at USA for daring to take their Speedy Gonzales, us Latinos can really hold a grudge XD.
I'm considering a GL aspect to my comic but its not the same as a typical romance manga/manhwa because it is part of a slice of life. The main character is unsure of their own personality let alone sexuality so it is more like an idealized crush on a person that just happens to be their same gender where they will have to wrestle with their own feelings and ideals as they grow into their personhood.
3 months later
As a bisexual dude it just irks me the wrong way when in a gay relationship there is a guy that is clearly meant to represent a woman in a hetero relationship. Like can fujoshis please stop forcing heteronormativity on gay relationships.
11 months later
I'm honestly surprised how uncommon people of different ethnicity and color are in comics. I tend to draw darker skin more often than not just for aesthetic reasons (I find dark shades very pretty) so it just sort of happens naturally, but I feel like the overwhelming majority of work out there is all white. Often, the ones that aren't all white just have that one POC character who's entire purpose is to BE a POC character. Like the creator threw them in just to meet PC standards. It's sad.
But back to topic, I spent 20 years in entirely F/F relationships, and have dated a very small handful of men. My current comic has characters of numerous sexualities and genders, but not in an 'in your face' sort of way. It's just one small aspect of who they are, which feels most natural to me.
I think it's important to have representation, but it's frustrating when the character's entire persona is defined by their minority status.
As a lesbian, my biggest issue with BL/GL is that most often, it's written by a straight person who fetishizes gay experiences. When I find actual BL written by a gay man or actual GL written by a lesbian, it usually ends up being a good story, but it's a rarity finding it. Women enjoying hot yaoi doesn't help gay men be seen as equals anymore than men watching lesbian porn helps. At the end of the day, it's viewing other people as a fetish for simply existing.
My own comic I listed as GL (along with LGBT and comedy), solely because my lead characters are lesbians, and part of my story does involve romance between two of them.
3 months later
