LINE Webtoon - Opinions?

[OccasionalNightmares]

From what I gather, the audience at Line are way more picky with presentation than any other site. They like "long" posts that aren't too long, because if they're too long they get reader burnt but if they're too short they lose interest quickly and don't want to click to the next episode. The only real way to gain readers is to be in the discovery section due to a recent update to your comic - but if you shorten your updates to get in more often, each time you're in you gain less subs due to it being too short. As well, presentation of the pages itself, with layout/font size/speech bubble placement seem very important on Line compared to other places. My comic hit 2,000 subs posted here recently, but Line has been a slow crawl and is only recently getting close to 400. Whether you pick up there seems to be mostly luck from what I can see, even after you fulfill the community's requirements for presentation. I would suggest not stressing too much about changing your work to fit one specific medium, especially if it's Line, but that's just my approach and I'm certainly no master on the subject considering how new my partner and I are to this.

[Sleepyowl]

Okay, question time.

Is there "one weird trick" to having my sub count explode over on LINE WEBTOON?

I ask because while I have gained about 27 new subs for Life of an Aspie over the past two weeks of posting the rest of Chapter 1 at one or two pages a day five days a week, (albeit old pages in a "remastered" style rather than the revamp I had previously going because of my real life job getting in the way of drawing time.) I know that I could be getting much more subs than what I'm currently getting based on all the stories of how "easy" it is to gain more subs on LINE versus Tapas. Plenty of creators I know publish a generic "slice of life" webcomic over there. Next thing I know, BAM. They have hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of readers.

I think because my webcomic is non-standard in all senses of the word, that might be why I'm barely getting any new subs per update. However, if there is anything I can realistically do that will guarantee that LINE finally takes notice of LoaA, I'm all ears.

Have flashy art with lots of pretty colours. If you have a very enchanting art style, it will draw more eyes to your comic.

[AllisonGal]

Guys, anyone notice favoritism in LINE WEBTOON? sure here on TAPAS there's also big favoritism too, but since this thread's about LINE...

I think they are handpicking most of the top comic. Anyone notice strange things? like how some comic like "Nine Stone" are so high inpopularity when his pledge is only 300 so it shows it doesn't get a lot of views. And comics with the same stats as his are way in page 20 or below when he's in the same popularity level as many powerful comics? another is "hinata". ONly has 40 likes and beats a lot of powerful comic to the top? LINE is doing big favoritism.

Of course there is a lot of suspicious comics that never budge even after they update. Usually comics fall many ranks after updating and they must struggle to go up, some like "About us" never fall at all. Only recently it started to fall but only 1 rank when the most powerful even lose 3 or 4 ranks? doesn't make sense. LINE is controlling all this manually. The comic they don't like they just toss them far behind and the ones they like they cheat for them. It's sad.

[69Michi]

I'm unsure where your observation came from. While it's true Nine Stone is popular here on Tapastic, Webtoon is a whole another play field that said popularity doesn't translate over for the majority of the series. If you look at it, Nine Stone only has 4K subscribers, which explain the low page view. (But if you ask me, they only started updating in March so that is already a lot better than some of my friend's comic who has been on the site for quite a long time)

We have our own suspicion over Hinata when the rating seems to be abnormally high for such a low subscriber / low likes series. But it IS possible, for people to create multiple account on Webtoon and subscribe/rate themselves. But I'm not pointing any finger here.

Of course there is a lot of suspicious comics that never budge even after they update. Usually comics fall many ranks after updating and they must struggle to go up, some like "About us" never fall at all.

You do notice About Us has over 50k subscribers right? With that amount of subscriber, it's pretty easy to make it back up the top 5 list, or sometimes even on the weekly hot. Also, you only start falling off the rank chart after a week of not updating. As far as I can see, About Us has been pretty consistent with their update time. If you notice, Scarce Clover is also in the same position. It will disappear from the popular Fantasy section for some times and as soon as the creator update, the series will show back up on Weekly Hot.

It's all about the subscribers and their activity here in LINE, I don't believe Webtoon to be manually controlling anything, they have better thing to do, I mean, like, you know, their Featured side of the site.

[AllisonGal]

I say this cause I observed for a long time. Right now, "About us" has a lot and it sure should have a spot in the high rated comics. But I have observed it since it began and let me tell you, it was fishy. When a comic updates, it falls back a few rank and this happens to all comic no matter how popular, even Sarah Scribble. But for "About US', everytime she updated, it never fell back. One time it even went up from position 12 to position 8 after updating. I believe LINE cheats on the comics they like. They manually control it. It's the case for "About Us". Looking at its ranking now it looks fair, but if you observed this comic since the beginning it's clear LINE did favoritism on it.

Now I spotted other suspiscious comics like "Love curiosity" who never falls back when all comics in the same range do fall back a few ranks. And that comic don't even update weekly. Also "I'm dating a celebrity" is the same. Just observe, you will see how suspicious it is.

I'm not saying this to bash any authors, my point is that LINE does favoritism and handpick the ones they want on top (except for those who have too high number of subs such as scarce Clover, etc... I believe they are fair)

I also notice how they throw comics they don't like very far. I won't say the names but they do that too.

And for nine stone, I believe it was handpicked and manually placed high on WEBTOON. If you look and compare to other webtoons with same stats, you will see how his stats do not match at all with the popularity surrounding him. there's many comics who has same number of subs but 2-3 times more likes and comments and they aren't even close to the top. popularity is based on likes, comments, views, and subs. So how can it be placed so high when all of the above are way lower than at least 15 comics of same #of subs? it's same with Hinata.

All this is mostly computer generated at first, they have rules and views and update time that based on those the computer or whatever their system handle it. But they also manually control it if they want a comic to be on top by inserting a comic in the tops or blocking the falling back if it updates so it can stay on top.

[lazygelai8]

I'm confused with Webtoon, Big Jo was not that popular at Webtoon Discover Section when it got only 1-2k subs, but got featured soon. How did that happen? Is it because Big Jo was popular in Tapastic?

I understand Brutally Honest was got featured since it has Many Subs and Followers, it has 13k subs before then got featured, that was more understandable.

Im not pointing something but It's kinda weird how webtoon works.
(Please Don't Bash me sempai s)

[scythe]

I'm sure it's not just how many subs you have, it must also come down to how engaged those subs are, the amount of likes and comments, how much they share it, how quickly the audience is growing, and I'm sure they have genre considerations as well. Maybe they were just waiting for a comic like Big Jo to come around to fill an empty genre slot they had?

[69Michi]

In their FAQ, they might say that "subs, likes, views" increase the chance of you getting featured, but I'm pretty sure there isn't any particular pattern at all as many of us frequent creator at Webtoon has discussed over this. If it's true that subs, like, views and engagement is all it needs to determine featuring, series like Scarce Clover or Unlovable Replacement would have already gotten picked up with their over 100k subscribers (and frequent placement on Weekly Hot). Many readers in the comment think that if a series update weekly (like a featured comic would), they would have higher chance of getting featured too, but sadly that isn't the case as I know My dear cold blooded king was on a biweekly schedule before getting featured.

All in all, I'm unsure how Webtoon picks their featured works, but I'm not gonna try figuring out either. There isn't an exact pattern or formula how they works but it seems like it's working fine for them. Considering it lucky if you ever get picked up to be featured though.

@AllisonGal I think you are talking about the order by popularity page on webtoon seeing how you are talking about "position" on the page. When I look into the code source of the page, popularity is ordered by a variable called READ_COUNT, which I assume could be similar to Tapastic's popular section, determine your popularity by the amount of people that read your latest update vs your subs. (Hence, explain why some series with low subs also make it up high on the page)

Although I'm still not sure how that page works and to be honest, that popular page is so hidden that I never bother to even look at it. (I'm always on the "Latest") I'm not sure what benefit LINE would get from playing the favorism game in the discover section out of any place. Discover section should be the least of LINE's concern tbh. They aren't like Tapastic, their Featured section is more of what the majority of readers came for. If they really like a series and want to play the favorism game, they might as well should have just picked that series up to make featured. Many featured comics came from Discover section, after all. But that is just me and my opinion on this whole matter.

[AllisonGal]

I know Erocento69, you have your opinion and I respect it. but I do believe they manually manipulate discover on webtoon. They're many people working there for sure and some might be managing featured while others manage discover. Feature don't need much managing though, everyone's paid and it's just page little things managing. But in discver the competition is big and I've seen them do suspocious stuff. Also they r not afraid to put binge on some discover series in the front page and these beats all the fair ones. For example: sarah scribble, or Lackaidaisy. They keep putting them regularly in their front page (and also on roundup) non-stop and it's recurring. They r picking those to be high. It's unfair because they beat everyone to the top. so you saying they don't care much about discover isn't believable to me (I respect your opinion but I'm just sayin, no hard feelings I hope) They care so much and are manually doing favoritism like putting sarra scribble or lackaidaisy above all other discover artist. They don't care about playing fair and square with other discover artist. This to me is already a favoritism already. so they do care. If they like you and want you on top they will put you 20 times in recommended or round up if they have to for you to make it to top as it was the case for "fluffy boyfriend", it got to that level because of non-stop push from webtoon, I;ve seen it at least 3 times in round up and 1- 2 times in recommended, it was that way until it got to a high point where it could do well on its own (like right now). No offense to any author, I'm just using example to prove my point. And I notice some comics who go 3-4 times on recommended non-stop while many other comic who updates frequently never even got once on it. They are doing favoritism, just looking at these fact alone.

It's ok if anyone believe they don't cause we have different opinions and I respect it. I just wanted to talk about this cause i think it's very unfair to many discover artists.

yes, if they like a serie they will feature it but they got to use at least some good ones in discover to save their honor in discover as well which is why many good ones r not featured.

[69Michi]

For example: sarah scribble, or Lackaidaisy. They keep putting them regularly in their front page (and also on roundup) non-stop and it's recurring.

Sarah Scribble and Lackaidaisy have their own business and do not care about being featured, but because they draw in large audience, it's why LINE Webtoon constantly advertise them, it's fair game. It's not LINE that picking them to be high, it those series that help LINE building a bigger audience base.

yes, if they like a serie they will feature it but they got to use at least some good ones in discover to save their honor in discover as well which is why many good ones r not featured.

If it is what you said, they keep them in the discover section despite the series being good being good just to spice up the Discover section, then sadly enough they will soon lose those big series as the pledging program is coming to an end. I know many of my friends said they are thinking about either discontinue or hiatus because it takes effort to be that big even on Discover section, after all. (Me personally on the same thought train, probably will slow down with my update)

But yeah, if that is your observation, then it's fine! Personally I just don't really care about the popular page in particular and LINE already did more than enough to advertise all sort of different series on their random recommendation title + front page's Weekly round up.

[AllisonGal]

you're right, I know LINE is doing this to lackaidaisy and Sarah scribble to get more of their fans on webtoon, this is why they pick them to be on top so line can get more audience, it show already they are manually controlling things which is my point, no matter their purpose, they are doing unfair things like this even if it is to benefit them, they manually control discover.

It's true. I agree that if the program of patreon ends, the discover section will go back to boring ( I'm not referring to artist and their comic being boring, they r awesome I'm talking about not many people will want to update so we got less activity thus boring) because many artist have lives and cannot update much. but who knows, they might continue the program, it seem to work well, and frankly it's the only way if they want to keep their discover section active and worthy.

[AllisonGal]

regarding who they pick to be featured, I've noticed that they would pick (not always, but oftenly) based on how many subs the person has on tapastic. Because tapastic is their competition. Look at Big Joe, brutally honest, and many. They have a large number of subs in tapastic. They do this to get more audience. If brutally honest has 50,000 more subs on tapastis, if he get feature on webtoon, he has to erase all his comic from tapastic, so the 50,000 fans from tapastic has to go to webtoon to be able to read that. They tried to feature "king folly" and he refused. Look at him he's got a big number of subs as well. I'm not saying it's the only reason for them to be feature but in most pattern you find that large number of subs from tapastic, so it's definitely one of the main reason.Of course they sometime pick based on popularity and success on the comic itself.

[scythe]

They do pick the comics manually, but I don't see how that's unfair.

If creator's aren't seeing their comics get picked, maybe it's because they need to up their game, or maybe it's because they're the gazillionth in a long line of comics of that exact same genre/story type.

There's supply and demand concerns to consider. Not every comic is as deserving of promotion as every other.

[AllisonGal]

I don't think it's the creator who need to step up their game. If they like you they will do anything to promote you no matter what. If they don't then no matter what you do they never gonna like you. I've seen many excellent comics who really stepped up their games but they never even appear once on recommended not because they didn't do enough but simply because webtoon don't like their comic. that's the sad truth. Either they like you or they don't. it's the same with being featured.
I don't think it has to do with authors not doing enough or needing to improve. It can be compared to looking for a job. if the boss like you then he gives you the job. for others, you can be the best hard working person if your boss don't like you, he's not going to let you work for him. Same with webtoon. if they don't like your comic No matter how you improve or how much you update, they just won't like it and won't even consider featuring you or even putting you on recommended.

[AllisonGal]

Now webtoon is controlling discover again with a new comic called "1001 reasons to live". that person started a month ago but we've never seen it anywhere in ranking. This week it suddenly appears out of the blue and on top of monster powerful comics such as unlovable replacement, midnight rain, scarce clover, etc... that comic's likes is only about 200 with about 20-30 comments, and a suspisciously high rating. although his rating is high, his number of likes for 5k subs is low. there're comics who get about 500 likes for that # of subs and more than 70 comments but they are very far down the ranking... so how can something like that beat the giants (powerful top comics) so suddenly? it's obvious, webtoon is placing it there, favoritism, that's my point. this is just more proof, no offense to any artist but i gotta use examples.

Again, it it their site their decision, but I think it's very unfair to authors in discover who really worked like crazy with blood and sweat to go up the ranks.if you do not think l ike me, it's ok, it's ok to disagree.

[scythe]

Well, as long as the favouritism is really based on what they "like" or don't like, which could include everything from just smashing artwork to the need to showcase a wide range of different stories and styles, then I have no problem with it.

If the favouritism is based on some kind of nepotism though, then yeah, obviously I can't get behind that.

[admiral-betty]

(Long reply to old post incoming)

I'm happy to finally find a solid post about LINE Webtoon. At first I was really gung-ho about posting to Webtoon, but their exclusivity regarding the content of their featured artists turned me off for awhile.

Mind you, I haven't got any offers for my comic to be Featured and for all I know it may never happen or not for a long time, but DANIEL is kind of "my baby" right now and were it to come down to that I'm just not sure about basically making Daniel a 100% Webtoon..unless I knew it was really worth it. Another comic maybe...just not sure about this one.

I feel the exact same way. I always get uneasy whenever a company asks that of its artists, especially since Webtoon doesn't seem to clearly state where the company stands on copyright/ownership of the content the artists contribute to it. Webtoon has plenty in its TOS regarding the use of its OWN branding and intellectual property, but I couldn't seem to clearly find anything that says "your content STAYS yours", which is concerning for me. I know it has to be there somewhere in the TOS, but what little I've managed to wrap my head around reads like LINE Webtoon owns the content its users submit. I'm really hoping that's not true but the ambiguity and legal jargon isn't really comforting.

I want to like LINE. Especially since they have a gigantic user base, and as far as exposure goes, it seems to really deliver-- unlike Tapastic, where it seems to fall short. However, I really like Tapastic as a brand and community, but as someone coming from a background of 0 subscribers I'm not sure if I could grow here without months or years of work. That's not to forget Tapastic's pulled some slightly shady stuff too, with the whole Right of First Refusal clause a month or two ago, but Webtoon seems doubly shady.

If I had to sum up my opinion about Webtoons, I'd say I'd be willing to deal with a less-than-friendly community if the numbers compensated for it, but my biggest hang up about it is the copyright stuff.

[scythe]

1. Copyright and License
   The Creator retains the copyright and all of his or her ownership rights in and to the WEBTOON content (“User Posting(s)”), uploaded on LINE WEBTOON Service.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

[admiral-betty]

This is the first I've seen of this. Would you mind linking me where you saw that? Maybe I didn't look as closely at the TOS as I thought I did.

---

EDIT: Strike that, you found it under the Creator Support Policy. Still, it's not so cut and dry to me, because according to the policy the Creator Support Program ends at the end of this month, July 31st.

My question is why this:

The Creator retains the copyright and all of his or her ownership rights in and to the WEBTOON content (“User Posting(s)”), uploaded on LINE WEBTOON Service.

Is under the terms for the temporary Creator Support Program, instead of Webtoon's broader Terms of Use. Maybe it's just me being anal, but I'd rather not take any chances.

ANOTHER EDIT: @69Erocento explained things a little more to me, it's cut and dry, I just misunderstood. Thanks for letting me know anyway though.

[69Michi]

Is under the terms for the temporary Creator Support Program, instead of Webtoon's broader Terms of Use. Maybe it's just me being anal, but I'd rather not take any chances.

You are thinking too much. It is because Webtoon does not only just consist of the Discover section where you can freely post thing on, but their main focus is their Featured comic, which is where said Term of Use cover. The Creator Support Program is indeed a temporarily thing, but the discover section itself is not. And the Copyright policy is written for the Discover section, which is also where the temporarily Creator Support Program is taking place. LINE's policies are pretty straight forward. If you are not a featured comic and did not enter in any sort of contract with them (yes, they send you paperwork and all that complicated jazz), your comic belong to you, you can take it away anytime and they do not have the right to take it from you.

But hey, you are free to ignore the platform if you do not want to take the chance. I don't see much difference between their Discover section with Tapas' non-premium tbh.

Edit: A little link for you to learn more about Webtoon's discover section policy: https://help.naver.com/support/contents/contents.nhn?serviceNo=10541&categoryNo=10764
This rule directly addresses Discover, hopefully it's clear enough and does not cause any misunderstanding.