Jul 2020
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Aug 2020
Aug 2020
KRWright
Aug '20
JackSherwin

We're not calling you out for lying. We're calling you out for breaking Tapas rules for a start - and for being predatory in what you're expecting in return for the renumeration offered.

False. Tapas' userbase is growing year on year.

Tencent is an investor but from what I can see, has no impact on those company's editorial policies, nor their pay or contracts. Being an investor is not the same as steering a site culture.

Yes there is a reason we're seeing them. They've been ethically licensed and translated by Tapas.

vblairehawthorne
Aug '20

"This company is a major stakeholder to X site; therefore, you cannot criticize it!"

Everything is shielded from criticism in Jack Sherwin's world.

JackSherwin
Aug '20

Im not saying that, everything has its plus and downs but you seem to be only looking at the downs. I have never said webnovel is the saint of webcomics, Are thier caluses worse then everyone esles. yes i woudl agree they are and this is mainly because they are chinese focused. and thier reply to that is it works in china.

the problem is for Webnovels. (other then Wattpad) Has the biggist audience. And it terms of paying audience Webnovel is far greater then any other Novel site.

WHat i said is the contract is not as bad as it seems because they take single clasues out of context. Like the fact that you have to write or meet a minum word count wich is not true.

There are around i would say 250 authors who are able to make a living off webnovel. So some people can make it work for them. But just cause it wasn;t a sucess for you, dosnet mean it ownt be for eeveryone.

If i had met you before sighning a contract with webnvoel and you had convinced me to not sighn i woudln;t be in the succfeull postion i am today.

I hope you understand that Blaire hawthorne

unicornfield
Aug '20

How does that justify anything

MiloNelakho
Aug '20
JackSherwin

and i gave already gotten what i came here for

And THAT is the problem. I work in freelance ghostwriting, where commissions generally come with a set rate from clients if you don't provide your own, and this is by far and away the worst rate I have ever seen offered. If it came to me I would report it on site and make sure my network knew to avoid the person who offered it. If you're able to pay an editor $600+, then the Tapas forums would not be where you sourced editorial resources. There's no proof that you do, but if I'm to take your word for it then it begs the question: how can you only pay proofreaders essentially $0.001 per word, over 10x less than entry-level industry standard.

Because that's the problem here. It's not just that you're offering an exploitative rate, it's that you framed yourself as a legitimate industry creator, which means - to someone who does not know artistic industries - you have positioned your rates as fair. When actual professionals have broken down your points, you've jumped to unsubstantiated excuses around your rates, income, network, and copyright usage. One of those is a red flag. All four is a malicious scheme.

To the writers who have been contacted by @JackSherwin do not accept that offer. If you've signed something already, seek legal aid. If you can't, message me and we'll see what we can do. But I would urge anyone who has read this thread to not take this person seriously under any circumstances and to educate yourself whenever you receive an offer from anyone, be they shady or reputable.

Random_Guy
Aug '20

Glad someone else did, I wasn't willing to nudge that wall, don't actually know enough.
I knew something was off here but I didn't know enough to put it into words. So thanks!

Nen
Aug '20
MiloNelakho

It baffles me how someone creates a job with the sole intention of hiring people they do not think are professional enough to pay appropriately, all so he can can underpay them hard. It is infuriating to see all those posts that were like "I've messaged you and want to work with you" lol hope none of them actually did

foxnflames
Aug '20
1
MiloNelakho

I saw this thread when it first popped up and my immediate reaction was “big ole yikes” but reading the inevitable unfold was a delight.

And as someone who wants to throw their pole in the pond of editing, I learned a lot of do’s and dont’s. I’ve helped a person before from development editing to plain old proofreading and it all can be a nightmare. And I mean “traditionally” published works with blaring typos and weak plot development. If whoever he can find to edit has to deal with tenfold of how these responses are typed up, I’ll light a candle for them

foxnflames
Aug '20
Nen

Don’t forget only needing primary school intelligence or be from a third world country!

Nen
Aug '20
foxnflames

lol earlier I spoke about how he's approaching this in a way that screams "I am doing something wrong and I want to do something wrong, you can't stop me because you are desperate", the fact that people like that exist upsets me to my core

Snickerdoodles
Aug '20

At least when I exploit people we all know what's what, with no pretense whatsoever.

MiloNelakho
Aug '20

A lesson in exploitative commissions:

  1. These people operate under an ignorance policy. If they know that theirs is the only offer you may have ever received, they will offer you the lowest possible one because they believe you do not have the frame of reference to critique it. Which is why they frequent spaces that are not predominantly full-time, career labourers (i.e. creative writing forums that skew on the younger side, Upwork, free serialisation platforms etc)

  2. They only thrive where they believe you do not have access to industry resources or advice to educate yourself with.

  3. They aren't ignorant in their exploitation. If they want a proofreader, it is because they recognise proofreading as skilled labour that requires fair compensation. Problem is, as stated above, they do not want (and most often cannot) pay you fairly. As a result, they will look for this labour in places where they value it more than the person they are looking to exploit.

  4. They rarely hold up to professional scrutiny. So many of you have done such wonderful work in breaking down the inconsistencies, inaccuracies, illegalities (my god so much of this is just straight up illegal in most well-regulated spaces) and straight up lies. Thank you for that. I know I've learned a lot.

  5. Even when they are honest, they are lying. [Paid But Low] is meant to give the impression that they recognise this as exploited labour, but they acknowledge it to beat your own common sense to the punch. If they are clear about the deception, it's to remove your ability to work it out for yourself and set up that mental boundary.

Things to do when confronted with exploitative commissions/offers/contracts.

  1. Report them. You are under no obligation to engage with a person, site, or company that you feel is being predatory.

  2. Contact a profesisonal. Either to offer you advice on why the offer is bad or to help call out the offer in hopes of warning others. Contact them regardless, even if you think the offer is great. Always gain perspective before agreeing or signing anything.

  3. Educate yourself on the value of artistic labour. Even if your webcomic or novel is only a hobby, you should make sure you know enough about your skills to understand their value, not just in case someone tries to explore you, but because it's also nice to know that your work can be properly valued if you ever decide to "go pro" with it.

  4. And I cannot stress this enough - warn somebody. Remember how these people thrive on no one knowing they're being exploited? Yeah, they can't do that in an environment where they are known entities.

  5. Your labour, your skills, and your intellectual property are yours first and foremost. Protect them first, even if you think you may miss out on an offer if you don't accept it quickly. These people thrive on making you feel like you have no option but them, and placing a time limit or any other kind of pressure on that is a known tactic for getting you to act without protecting yourself first.

  6. Never accept $1 for any sort of labour. PayPal is gonna take 0.80c anyway.

closed Aug 2, '20