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Luminosophy
Jun '16
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"My script is about a boy who goes to fighting the mangas. It will be very popular! I need a professional artist to draw all my pages but I don't know how many there will be. I don't have a lot of money but when I get famous in Japan I can pay you some money."

I'm starting to see these everywhere I go on Deviantart and I wanna bash my head against a wall. You're lucky if you even get a vague synopsis of the story, and my favourite is always that it's going to be super popular in Japan, but you're not getting famous as a team, ohh no. It's the writer, and only the writer who will be recognized for this work. And there's always weasel words to indicate that even if the scenario came true, you still wouldn't be properly compensated for the effort you did do. Some will even say that when it gets popular, you'll be paid via exposure because the comic is now popular. And of course you can never talk sense into them, it's like talking to a brick wall.

/end rant

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    Jun '16

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There are 83 replies with an estimated read time of 29 minutes.

Koffyhouse
Jun '16

agreed, its quite bothersome to artists who are serious about their work too.

69Michi
Jun '16

And this is why most decent artists ignore these type of writers. Or maybe it's just me. But honestly people who don't appreciate the effort an artist put into their arts are the worst +_+ you think writing is hard while arting is effortless and easy peasy child-play??? Oh I have bad new for you.

TomSawyer
Jun '16

Well Its obviously a bit unbalanced
But maybe artist who are willing to collab with a writer, should have an agreement?

I mean in the end
Both the writer and artist should feel satisfied after everything is done

I will admit it's kind of hard to think of it as a team effort, when someone is being paid to do it
Some artist have shops where they sell drawings they made, including the one's you commissioned. Sometimes for a lower price

gateofselidor
Jun '16

If the writer is looking for someone to draw their idea for them, then it's not a "team effort" in the same sense that a two people coming up with an idea together is, so it's only natural that it should feel different.

If a writer doesn't like creating a comic via a business transaction, well then they had better learn to draw. The chances of stumbling across an artist who both wants to be their friend and to dedicate themselves wholly to the writer's idea for no payment are very small, and it's an unreasonable expectation to have of someone.

Sucessful collaborations with no money involved tend to happen between friends, often people who have roleplayed together. They create a cast of characters and a world that they have both contributed to and become invested in, rather than one person supplying the story and the other the art.

As for the commissions issue, I don't think it's standard practice to sell prints of commissioned work without the client's permission, so it sounds like you've come across some unscrupulous artists. If it's something you're concerned about, you should bring it up with the artist beforehand and get their written agreement, or take your money elsewhere if they don't like it.

TomSawyer
Jun '16

@gateofselidor
I understand everything your saying

My comment was mostly a reply to the original poster's point of not getting recognized as a team
It does seem like the writer's do get a lot of the fame after something is created, but to me it's balanced out somewhat by the bigger risk

But I do acknowledge that both skills are great
If I did a collaboration, I would make sure to give credit where it's due

I've seen at least 3 different people selling commissions, so it's not common, but its good to real all the details first
Everytime that happens, Its always a conversation about who owns the rights to the property

Minilog
Jun '16

No artist in their right mind should EVER take an offer like this. "I'll pay you when it's done. It's gonna be huge" Well if they were convinced it was going to be huge they would be willing to take out a loan to pay the artist with. If it's going to make enough to pay them anyway they won't lose anything. And if they are too afraid to take out a loan clearly they don't actually believe that the project will succeed.

I'd say only do this with a friend or colleague. If you both are passionate about a project go for it, just don't try to drag other people into it with the promise of money at the end. Profit is never guaranteed.

SpavVy
Jun '16

Glad I'm not the only one who is sick of seeing this shit.

69Michi
Jun '16

It really all comes down to the artist's term of service tbh. So before you commissioning anyone, read their T.o.S! But as a general rule, art commissioned by people ARE NOT for resell. Once the customers pay you for the service, the product that you finish will belong to them and they have every right to use the art as they pleased. (But most of the time not for commercial use) It sounds all the more wrong to sell a commissioned art if the art contain the customer's original characters LMFAO

TomSawyer
Jun '16

@Koffyhouse

Well to elaborate
An artist getting paid to create a series, is going to make money regardless of what happens

The person who came up with the idea, and spend money. Might end up going nowhere
If the series becomes successful, the writer can get rewarded with fame. The artist will also receive that as well

In your series, your both the writer and the artist
So you can save money on writing, and only spend money on art supplies and tech

Koffyhouse
Jun '16

But that has nothing to do with what the conversation was about. It was about artists taking payment or possibly taking payment after the project was already done by a writer who says it will be popular but does not know for sure. So a writer like that would be taking no risk at all with what they were doing.

TomSawyer
Jun '16

Well yeah
But who would agree to a project like that where they would get paid later?

It sounds like a joke or something

Koffyhouse
Jun '16

Thats the whole reason this topic was started to point out the ammount of people trying to get artists to work for free. Basically slapping them across the face.

Luminosophy
Jun '16
Minilog

The worst part is they do attract naive young artists who jump at the offer, which makes it difficult to reason with the writer who is convinced they've got a sweet deal. But I do silently laugh to myself when I see the artwork is just all trace overs of official anime / Manga art.

VermillionWorks
Jun '16

I think the people who actually make this offer and aren't just trying to con an artist into doing work for free, the ones who actually believe their story is so amazing it'll make them rich and famous once it's put into a visual format, are people that have no idea just how many freakin' comics there are and how rarely a random indie comic (webcomic or otherwise) stands out as this amazing diamond in the rough.

There's nothing wrong with loving your story, but that is one hell of an ego to assume yours is so amazing that the world won't be able to resist throwing tons of money at it. XD

Also, expecting to become famous in Japan just because it's manga-styled is absolutely ridiculous.

Michelle
Jun '16

The worst thing is how many artists actually jump all over these offers, and I don't think I've seen it quite as bad as it is on DA. Whether it's artists clawing over each other for the promise 20 bucks, or offering commissions for $1 (or DA points... ugh), it's just sad sad sad sad. We should expect more for our craft. Accepting these bad offers only reinforces the notion that our time and skill is cheap.

I understand wanting to create something amazing but not having the budget, but these writers and visionaries need to learn to be realistic. I would love to assemble a team and create gorgeous 2D animated films, but obviously I lack the means, so I do comics because it's way more reasonable and achievable. If you can't afford to pay an artist what they're worth, don't waste their time. And any artist who would work for peanuts is likely to be incredibly flakey, and who could blame them for not sticking around? Of course, the creator usually can't see this as being a fault of their own. :u

Really though, for artists wanting to work on a project THAT badly... it's better to work on your own project for no pay than to be someone else's art lackey for little or no pay. Cause at least at the end of the day, you can say that you own everything you create.

alaingrey
Jun '16

I wish this were just an online/deviantart problem where the anonymity would lend people no shame, but I went to a convention in March and for the hell of it decided to go to the artist/writer networking panel.
I showed up and first guy I talked to was like 'sorry, you're not worth my time. I'm here looking for a real professional to make my zombie comic for free.'
This guy isn't a professional writer of course, and this is his first title. I am a professional artist with a lot under my belt for my age. Needless to say I was pissed and left.

Seriously, though, I think that it takes a certain kind of ego to want to be 'the brains behind x title' instead of a collaborator working towards a mutual goal <:^D

Koffyhouse
Jun '16

That guy sounds more than just annoying! I mean seriously? he wanted to do a zombie comic when the market is flooded with them? and the Walking Dead is almost completely monopolized that genre.

Michelle
Jun '16

LMAO. Did that guy even hear his own words? If someone told me that I don't know if I'd laugh at or cry for them.