Manga writer looking for artists to collaborate with. (Unpaid) [Closed]

[DragonMaster]

So, why would my work not get money?

[DiegoPalacios]

Because you are not willing to treat artists with enough basic decency so they are willing to work with you.......

Also.....you are just a stranger on the internet and not a famous creator.

Many creators and artists here have published work, but don't ask for free labour, because they know it takes time and resources.

[DasIstWunderblyat]

Of course, such talent and experience!

[DragonMaster]

Okay, if from your perspective, not paying = equals disrespecting people. Then fair enough? If you don't like the core concept of collaborating, then fair enough as well. Though, I don't see the point in being hostile to a "stranger" about it.

[Callirai]

The simple thing to understand here is anyone asking for a service is the one that should pay the other. If you were an artist with tons of experience and asking for something large from a writer, you should pay that writer. And vice versa. You are a writer asking for a lot from an artist. You should pay the artist. That is why your response of "why shouldn't the art pay me" comes off as rude. Because you are asking for the service. When mcdonald's hires an employee, they don't ask for pay from the employee, they give the employee money to do the service they are asking for. We understand you just want a free collaboration. Someone made a comment about payment that may have been rude, yes, but you came off as rude too. Not to mention, as a free collaboration, nobody would want to work with someone that doesn't understand the basics that when you ask for a service that you are unable to do, you should pay that person for their services or give them something they need in return. And again, most people on here don't necessarily need a writer. You are needing an artist. So find something that artist does need, whether that be money or something else. But it probably isn't going to be a writer. Again, most people on this forum are writers. And any artist is probably also a writer.

[DiegoPalacios]

Okay, if from your perspective, not paying = equals disrespecting people. Then fair enough?

When you frame it as a privilege and that they should be paying you, it's definitively disrespectful.

Answer why the artists wouldn't pay me?

[DragonMaster]

I'm not asking for a service. My exact wording is "Hey, anyone want to work together on a fun project?".
Yes, artists can write stories, but not all of them. Some (including the ones I have worked with), simply want to draw, without stressing about the story. Or want to draw something they know has a good story, which they themselves don't think they can do.
I don't want someone to work for me. I even stated above somewhere, and in my portfolio, I accept pitches, and have offered to write for an artists story. I don't want anything, but to collaborate.
Teaming up, to accomplish something neither side could do alone, is very different then hiring someone to do something for you.

[DragonMaster]

It is a privilege, are you mad? Let's reverse those roles for a second.
"I as an artists, am offering to draw something for someone." = A privilege.
Its not a right. I don't have to write for you. To expect me to write for you, with nothing in exchange is insane. You are actually loosing sight of basic things for a creative, simply to try and prove a point.

[DragonMaster]

Alright, I’ve still be replying to comments, as to try and figure out the best way to get my points across. Though, most people are bouncing around enough, that I feel it necessary to refocus what people are discussing on.
The sequence of events thus far, have been such.
People comment that I shouldn’t expect artists, since they all collectively would need payment, before they would collaborate.
I reply with, “There are plenty of artists willing to collaborate on a project, without payment. If people want payment, that’s fine, but not at all what I am looking for.”
I followed up with: “I think the idea that artists require pay for a collaboration, especially for a project of equal proportions like this, to be biased and silly. How would people feel, if I asked for payment?” To which the response was nothing, literally no one has commented on this concept yet. I don’t even know why, since you have the idea that “drawing takes more time.” Which could be brought to the table, and is a far more interesting point of debate then, “because.”
This somehow then evolved into, I’m actually not sure. People seem very angry about the idea of people working together, for the betterment of each party involved. I understand being an artists is hard and scary. That people are trying to take advantage of you. However, that doesn’t give one the license to lash out. Not to say I’m personally effected; I still just am interested in analyzing other people’s perspectives.
If you inherently think, working together, because you enjoy what you are making, or because you have common goals, or simply for fun, is wrong, then okay. I’m not sure how I would argue against that. It’s to foreign of a concept to me.
I am more then happy to answer questions, or debate people on the concepts I have actually presented. If you want to vent your frustrations over the idea that collaborating for free is bad, then that’s fine as well, but I don’t think it’s a constructive use of time. If you believe your stand point has merit, then fight for it. However, just brick walling the conversation, and repeatedly saying you’re right, doesn’t get very far.
An open discussion, where you listen to the points being presented, in a calm manner, is how to make progress.

[DasIstWunderblyat]

I do not think the problem with people here is the unpaid collaboration. In fact, many people here do unpaid collaboration too.

It is how you come across as belittling and entitled:

Answer why the artists wouldn't pay me? Since, I have far more experience and time in then they would.

But instead a way to work on something better than they could do themselves, while gaining experience working with someone with more time under their belt.

I highly doubt their are any with 16 years of practical experience, but if there is, cool.

You are an experienced professional writer. Writers evoke emotion and impression with words. Go re-read those sentences and think what kind of emotions and impression can be evoked by it.

Also "published"? Where?
I only see your manga listed on Webtoon and Tapas, and if it is what you call "publishing" then I am a fucking published novelist like the teens who write Harry Styles fanfiction on Wattpad. Publishing on Webtoon? You meant just like thousands or millions of everyday people.
Your novels are self-published via Amazon and there is no sample or something that future collaborators can use to judge the quality and their compatibility with it.

Face it, here you are a fucking nobody like us. Nobody here have heard your name before to be a witness of your superior writing ability, and simple Google search do not help much while I was expecting titles published by prestigious publishing houses popping out. Where is your hundreds essays? Where is your published manga? Show it!

Unpaid collaboration is all about passion and compatibility, and there will be no passion and compatibility without trust. From what I see, you have failed to gain people's trust here.

Sorry if I am being too rude in a personal way, I just dislike people who do not know their places.

TL; DR: No we don't have problem with unpaid collaboration, we have problems with entitled people wanting to do it.

[amortelito]

As my finally reply you literally got 3 answers addressing "why aren't they paying me?" Don't say nobody did. If you were not satisfied that's on you. You dismissed what everyone said. You got the answers, you just disagreed with them. Good luck.

[DiegoPalacios]

I don't have to write for you. To expect me to write for you, with nothing in exchange is insane.

I never said that.....don't put words in my mouth. You are the one who said artists should pay you.

Answer why the artists wouldn't pay me?

[Callirai]

: “I think the idea that artists require pay for a collaboration, especially for a project of equal proportions like this, to be biased and silly. How would people feel, if I asked for payment?” To which the response was nothing, literally no one has commented on this concept

But people did comment on this concept. We have said that if you asked for payment, it would be wrong, since you are the one asking for something. That has been commented on. And the sheer fact that even you said later in your comment that art usually is more time consuming than writing shows that you understand why artists might want to be paid. Also, you mentioned if it would be okay if writers asked for payment when an artist offered the collaboration and wanted a writer. And yes, it would make sense for the writer to ask for money in that situation. But we aren't in that situation for one. And for two, most writers wouldn't ask to be paid, because a lot of writers have wanted an artist and couldn't afford to pay them. So having a free artist is worth it in the end even if they aren't paid. The art they are receiving is their payment. That is where we are saying, your writing is obviously not enough for the artists that have seen this post, if you can offer money, maybe offer something more than just writing. Offer critiques on the writing or help with story building in their stories.

[DragonMaster]

Actually all my novels have samples. (almost) Every novel on amazon has samples. Also, my portfolio has scripts. My website has links to my essays. Clearly, you think you caught me somehow, even though, the first paragraphed I introduced my self with, was "I have published 3 manga." then. "I am working towards getting published in a magazine."
I never claimed to be famous. That's an odd point.
I see you don't like my replies. That is fine.
I just don't really understand why. I think you might be projecting a bit, but that's fine, everyone does so sometimes.
I don't think you are sorry, so I wouldn't say that. However, I don't actually know, so that seems unfair of me to assume.
If you think my words make me seem entitled, that is also okay. I disagree and would think most people would as well.

At least we agree, that I don't think the "unpaid collaborations isn't the problem".

[Callirai]

If you think my words make me seem entitled, that is also okay. I disagree and would think most people would as well.

Multiple people on this have said you sound entitled m I think most people agree that you are sounding entitled.

[DragonMaster]

I understand why they want to be paid. That was never a question. My reply to wanting to get paid was, "Okay cool. I'm not offering pay, because I am more focused on making good art, then making a thing to be sold. If you want to be paid, I'm sure their are others interested."

You do seem reasonable and I do believe we are having a well constructed back and forth, but the sticking point seems to be the perception that I am asking for something.

To me, working together as a team, towards a common goal, is not asking for something. I guess, I am asking them to work with me, instead of someone else. But I am not asking "Hey, don't work on your project, work on mine." I'm asking. "Hey, I see you are interested in working together on something, why not work with me? I'm a cool dude, I got some stories here you might like, what do you say?"

(Also, just as a note "most writers wouldn't ask to be paid, because a lot of writers have wanted an artist and couldn't afford to pay them. " Doesn't come off great. I understand what you are going for, but it could be re-worded or re-thought a bit).

Also, your point on "Not good enough writing" is a great one. I don't think anyone replying has said that, or even looked at the scripts, but its a solid point. If that was what was being said, everything would be good. You can't win everyone. However, I don't think that's what is happening.

[DragonMaster]

Yes, but I think that's because they already are fired up.

[Callirai]

I didn't say not good enough writing. I said your writing is not a good enough asset to the artists. So offer something else up as "payment" than just your writing. I'm not saying your writing is bad. I'm just saying it isn't a payment cause there are already too many artist/writers on here.

[DragonMaster]

I wasn't saying you thought it was bad. But going off of. "That is where we are saying, your writing is obviously not enough for the artists that have seen this post..."
If someone wants something else, I am okay with that. I think it's odd. To me, wanting something in return for creating something, is foreign and I don't understand it. I'm open to talk about it, but it's not something I will naturally understand.
"I'm just saying it isn't a payment cause there are already too many artist/writers on here." I think that's, incorrect. There has to be a measurable difference, between a stronger story and a weaker one. Perhaps, others might have another perspective, for a solid reason, but I'm not sure what it would be.

[DiegoPalacios]

I just don't really understand why. I think you might be projecting a bit, but that's fine, everyone does so sometimes.

Now.....you may be the one projecting right now....

Face it, you already undermined the whole premise of this collab by claiming to be a 21 yo writter with 16 years of experience. To be honest.....it's insulting.

I don't think you have been doing professional work since five, so i would not dare to count that as experience in any respectable resume-portfolio.

Also....did you really think people here would not do basic math to notice the inconsistency????.....what kind of people do you think artists are?????

You wanna do a collab?......be honest and respect creators.....don't come with a cheap mask pretending to be a pro to promise heaven and earth and acting all high and mighty.