My Dillemma w/ my Comics

orchidesyl 2018-10-04 00:19:44 UTC #1

Don't get me wrong, the webcomic community seems to be very dedicated, well, that's from my impression of the Tapas Forums.
I've taken notice that I, and many likewise, are getting a sense of a strange balance of prioritizing frequency with quality + effort.*
*some people use the word mediocre to describe popular or trending comics, and although they're not my cup of tea, I wouldn't want to bash something people enjoy. I digress.

I spend (and spent) a lot of time working on my comic(s) (I plan on posting my new one on Halloween, so excited) to have it posted on here, but what's the point if I'm not getting any gradual growth, since every time I posted I wouldn't see exponential growth.

I want to take a different approach;

I want to make my comics put into print someday, and I don't want online postings to interfere with the finalized versions of my comic so I've decided just to post colored sketches for the sake of frequency. With that being said the art wouldn't be too polished, but that will ensure that final versions of the art will be in print and available if I have a patreon up and going.
Any thoughts or feedback on things would be very helpful. I'll finish the current chapter in the same style and make the switch later on.

fleohr 2018-10-04 01:03:12 UTC #2

Hmm I'm not sure if you started in July of this year or any other time, but from my experiences if you want to turn your comic into a business that lots of people would like to read, you'd have to make what's popular/trope/cliché, it's not about what you like or feel like to create, especially if you like to make something diferent from everyone elses, or even not drawing anime/manga, but likes to draw in an western style

Not that you make can't turn into a business, it just takes way more time to get noticed by the masses. I've seen a couple good western webtoons not even get that much attention, even with all their effort

Jenny-Toons 2018-10-04 01:12:16 UTC #3

I would argue that even when you do this, and a lot of people do go this route, you won't necessarily get the views and attention you think you'd get.

While it's true that following some of those trends can help just a bit, you've also gotta remember that trends can and often get replaced by other things. Even more, it sorta becomes a bandwagon, and people will end up seeing your work as "the same thing" since it's really just tagging onto the same trends.

I honestly think the best thing to do when trying to get out there is to provide yourself a presence. Provide something that people can see you for other than your brand. Ask yourself this:

Do you engage in conversations with other creators -- whether that be discussing works you've enjoyed, providing feedback for each other, or just talking about general things?
Do you participate in online events (such as Inktober or #DrawThis and post them on your social media?
Do you have an active social media and keep it organized, posting not only art and art-related things, but also providing personality?
Do you promote others along with yourself?

I feel there's a bit more to getting out there than just promoting. It's also about putting you as a person out there, showing more parts to yourself, and helping others if and when you can. It's also about being consistent and showing others exactly what you're capable of.

I also feel it's about having drive and grit in this field, and being willing to still break from the norm. We still get people who complain about popular trends existing, but when they're asked to try and push others things forward, those same people will probably say "oh, why bother?" -- and that's no good.

If we want different things out there, we've gotta push for them. We've gotta show there's a market for more than just the popular trends.

So what you're trying to do now is a pretty good start. Just keep your presence up, be consistent, and understand where you yourself feel you're at.

orchidesyl 2018-10-04 01:35:05 UTC #4

My stuff is older than july 2018, that's just when I posted this version. I started my comic back in march 2015 lol

And to make things that appeal to others is just a waste of time and disservice to myself and readers.
Diluting my work is not only an insult to me, and other passionate creators, but it just comes off as service being feed to fans, not readers.
Regardless, I want to be realistic. Even if something I care about doesn't get popular reception, I'm not trying to turn my art into a business, but just to monetize from it's benefits.
Things don't get the green light immediately, that's why you need to travel different streets until you get to where you go. You just need to have enough fuel to do so.

orchidesyl 2018-10-04 01:48:44 UTC #5

Jenny-Toons:

I honestly think the best thing to do when trying to get out there is to provide yourself a presence. Provide something that people can see you for other than your brand. Ask yourself this:

Do you engage in conversations with other creators -- whether that be discussing works you've enjoyed, providing feedback for each other, or just talking about general things?
Do you participate in online events (such as Inktober or #DrawThis and post them on your social media?
Do you have an active social media and keep it organized, posting not only art and art-related things, but also providing personality?
Do you promote others along with yourself?

I feel there's a bit more to getting out there than just promoting. It's also about putting you as a person out there, showing more parts to yourself, and helping others if and when you can. It's also about being consistent and showing others exactly what you're capable of.

I also feel it's about having drive and grit in this field, and being willing to still break from the norm. We still get people who complain about popular trends existing, but when they're asked to try and push others things forward, those same people will probably say "oh, why bother?" -- and that's no good.

Admittedly I don't come off as easy to approach, so I'm trying to be more outgoing with things. Although I am a realist, I pursue all matters I care for with great efforts. I am trying inktober and drawtober this year, and i wish to participate in other challenges. I also try to cinsider the saying "It's not about working hard, it's about working smart," so I'm trying to experiment with a number of things revolving around the things I care about.

I's rather fail badly at something l like or succeed in anything I'm passionate about instead of being tragically mediocre for the sake of trying to appeal to an audience. If there's one person who likes something, then there's hundreds or thousands who like the same thing,, so it's only a matter of time for more people to like my work.

As for your other points I try to be active in these forums and online with discussions. Contributing insightful things can help people so much so why not try to help others, y'know.

monotone_ink 2018-10-04 02:48:41 UTC #6

All I can say at the moment is to work on compromise - while it's good to have high quality content, you also have to consider that you need to make efficient use of your time to get your content uploaded quickly.

I understand how lowering your art quality can feel like you're tarnishing your work, but you should also consider that if comics could be considered 'art', then the 'art' description would apply to the comic as a whole - with this in mind, draw your pages with the goal of driving towards completion.

Additionally, you'll want to work on production efficiency - I don't know how you'll go about it, but it's important that you do indeed make the balance between the frequency of content output and the quality of said content.

The artist of this manga artist is named Asano Inio, and the subject matter of most of his comics are heavily grounded in realism. He could have chosen to draw all of those backgrounds by hand, but in order to save time and contribute to that vision, he instead takes photographs and manipulated them to look hand-drawn.

There's still a lot of effort put into his story, but what's most important is that he conjured up a method of creating his work without compromising on the amount of content he produces, nor his quality.

Work on drawing quickly, organizing a creation process, anything - just find that balance.

orchidesyl 2018-10-04 02:59:27 UTC #7

I'm still going to complete the pages, I wanted to be printed so I wouldn't be lazy with it, but I'm saying I'm posting the rendered sketches/penciling versions of the comic with coloring online for free readership since earlier I asked for some collective critiques and I was told it's a lot to take in. Perhaps I'll show you what I'll make it look like and what it liked like initially. There's a certain vision I want my comic to have since line work + texture conveys and emphasizes a mood.

By uploading simpler versions of the comic, I can reserve rendering for a later time and have a greater batch of pages already created, allowing me to fix any issues ahead of time instead of trying to complete everything all at once. In short, completing everything in different stages over time, that way I can also get better at time management.

Thank you for your insights.

Luminosophy 2018-10-04 04:36:00 UTC #8

I want to just add as well, if you're jumping on bandwagons to capitalize on popular tropes and plot formulas, you've put yourself in a position where you're now competing with other creators only on a skill basis given the content is 100% the same. There's no incentive for an audience to read your comic if there's shinier versions out there. It's actually the worst thing you could possibly do unless you're god tier in every aspect.

I argue people will also see passion, or lack thereof in your writing and drawing. It's subtle, but it's always there and people do pick up when someone is just trying to cash in vs make something they care about.

Pandastrophic 2018-10-04 05:51:24 UTC #9

I would not recommend this advice at all, it's sometimes obvious when a comic is made for popularities sake bc you can tell there is no passion behind it. Not only that but the popular genre's are so saturated with so many comics that it's still hard to get popularity.

I think this is a good idea and worth trying out especially if you're aiming for print more so than online. I found that early access (and in general more webcomic content ) was more successful for me on Patreon than my regular art content.

DiegoPalacios 2018-10-04 15:05:25 UTC #10

If two people chase the same rabbit, the one who is behind will end up without food.

When it comes to storytelling: Don`t be afraid to do something different, but use what works too. Dont be subversive for the sake of being subversive. Be subversive when it helps to make the story better.

If you want to keep the best quality while updating consistently, you need to train your speed.
There are some tips about it in this topic.
https://forums.tapas.io/t/how-do-featured-artists-make-so-many-panels-per-week/25240?source_topic_id=26040 Is an underrated, but valuable skill.

If you want to sell printed comics there is another option too. A webcomic author i follow uploads his comic digitally, but sells printed versions with bonus scenes and also makes exclusive printed comics of prequels.
That way, he shows what his story is about, and gives an incentive for people to buy the printed versions.

orchidesyl 2018-10-05 04:35:24 UTC #11

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond and provide insight to my dilemma and additional feedback and suggestions. I can only see down the line after enacting my ideas and contribute my efforts and your advice to it.
Any advice is still helpful.

Thaumana 2018-10-05 17:59:35 UTC #12

Your current struggle and thoughts hit so close to home. I'm creating a manga which has an iteration history leading back to my time as teenager. I am also one of those who aim a print version some day.

While it still feels very hard and rough to gain more readers and escape my status below the radar online I still think that I'm on a good way to reach my goal some day. Even with all well-prepared promotional strategies beforehand there were and are so many aspects to learn when it comes to gain popularity. @Jenny-Toons mentioned points containing very good suggestions for establishing the groundwork for project awareness. I think it's crucial to develop a cooperative and communicative mindset when you decide for yourself to enter a community or build your own. Give and take, so to say... It might sound a bit pragmatic but in the end, that's what it's all about.

I can relate to your point of view regarding your workflow and artistic decisions. I for myself knew from the beginning that it would be hard to promote a manga (the reading direction alone can be a potential hurdle for readers) and also the dialogue-heavy part is something which certainly makes it less optimal to find an easy approach. Back then when I read the advice recommendations from Tapas and other webtoon hoster sites it was like "Great! Everything I did is the exact opposite...! :'D" but I still deliberatly draw my manga like it is since it was also really important for me from an artistic and narrative point of view to arrange my panels and pages in such a classic book format. Nonetheless there are some really loyal reader and followers spread over different channels and blogs who are always willing to give my content a signal boost. I really am grateful for their help and plan to fulfill some little christmas drawing requests for them as a way of thanks.

Compromising the workload and finding a good time-effort-ratio is still something I have to train. Currently with my final studies and exam period being just around the corner this practise is my highest priority because I don't want to neglect my manga after I came this far. It was already hard enough to keep track on frequently working and uploading my stuff while doing part-time jobs and working on the team projects at the university.
I came across this video where the artist talks about his long time comic project which finally got released after a decade of work and also about some workflow decisions he regrets. Overall this video also shows that it's important to fail from time to time because this is actually the best experience where you learn to enhance your own skills.