New Webtoon Policy about Adult Content (RIP BL/Yaoi Creators)

[UrMom]

Uh, not sure if it helps but a while back I PMed the SJ admin about the rules regarding porn. He said if it was very few and far between (meaning 1-2 scenes ever couple hundred pages), and wasn't several pages long (2-4 is alright), graphic sex scenes are allowed. He also said that it's best if the scenes were integral to the story.
I also asked him about smut comics that don't get taken down. The response was that he's basically a one-man band with a day job, and only a few mods to survey the site. There's going to be comics he'll miss, so if you're posting smut there which hasn't gotten a warning yet you may want a backup, because he may not have seen your comic yet. Admin normally emails/PMs you with a warning first so you can censor the pages, I think he gives creators about a week or two, but if you don't your work will be taken down.

Weird rules, I can only assume he's trying to make SJ a PG-13 site while keeping the porn comics give SJ was practically a yaois/smut site back in the day, but his solution isn't really the best. Honestly I'd prefer something similar to The Duck where you have to be of 17-18+ years old to see adult/mature content.

@ihaveatoaster Adult content is erect penises going into things, sexual nudity (nudes meant to sexually arouse the viewer), masturbation, pretty much anything involving graphic sex or XXX-rated content.

Edit: Forgot to mention that a reader can also report your comic at any time if they feel the content is too adult, which will effectively direct the admin and mods to your work almost instantly. This happens everywhere else, they're just fast because the site is smaller, and they take that sort of thing very seriously.

[LordVincent]

This might mean readers will be more likely to sign up for our patrons for the r-rated content because it wont be free anywhere on webtoons anymore. Or maybe they'll flock to tapas.

I've got the answer for that.

Looks like a yes.

There's no need to leave webtoon entirely.

Just take down the stuff you can't keep on webtoon, keep posting the rest (and earn ad rev!) and tell people where to go if they wanna get the same amount of content they used to.

Make sure to communicate your message to your audience in few words but clearly at the same time. Mobile readers especially have short attention spans, so getting them to try a new thing is hard enough. Then there are people who look once at tapas and assume it costs money, and those people go and spread those rumors to other users. And then there are some who will blame you.

So basically be clear about the following:

• It's webtoon who has changed their policies, and you can't do anything about it.
• Make it clear where they can go to read the stuff that can no longer be posted on webtoon
• Make it very clear that Tapas is free, if Tapas is the site you choose to suggest that they go to. Might wanna do this with every other site too (if you choose to direct them to another site, or maybe your own site), actually, it will save you the trouble of having to answer a million people "yes it's free" later.

[Zyephen]

I didn't know anything about a big BL purge tbh, and I've been on SJ for 7 years now. I've always had really good experiences on SJ, so sad to hear there's such a bitter perception toward it. But there's not really many large hosting sites that allow nsfw content that I've found, sadly. SJ being one of the few, although with limitations.

[Shanny8]

How are these sites supposed to grow if everyone avoids them due to their small size?

Hahahahaha...sorry. Innuendo came to mind.

It's not so much creators avoiding them- they dont get hella reader traffic. That was one of the reasons I backed away from Smackjeeves- you might have 20 out of 100 webcomics(just an example) actually getting more than 40 views a week...I saw some decent comics there, but it doesnt get as much traffic as Webtoon or Tapas; I'd definitely feel like I'd be wasting my time posting there if it takes a long time to gain an audience.

[LordVincent]

Experiences vary I guess. I'm glad you have a platform that suits you and your work

[seru]

We're currently in talks with KR/CH comic platforms for possible partnerships.

I got to meet them last week and their offer looks promising. We'll see how it goes and to see if I can bring in other BL creators to this new platform.

[UrMom]

Lmao yeah, this isn't the best thread to be talking about size.

It's kind of a vicious cycle, though. Readers turn away from those sites because nothing new is being posted on them, they don't see their fav creators talking about them on social media, or anything really. I bet if some popular webcomic creators started posting on those sites (or more people in general), advertised the new mirrors on their blog/twitter/whatever, the sites would get more traffic.
Yeah, it's definitely a waste of time for people who want instant gratification, or if you're trying to monetize your comic. But it's also weird that there's two perfectly good sites that fully allow adult content, and everyone is choosing to utilize the sites that don't allow it. Excluding the people trying to make a living, I can understand the difficulty of their situation given the two sites that don't allow smut also happen to be the ones where you can make money.

[fleohr]

I think the reason of them being small is because they don't have an app like Tapas and Line Webtoon. People use their phones more than computers nowadays, since it's more convenient. Basically, if the site itself doesn't follow the modernity, it gets behind quickly

[BloodOgre]

Being a bit controversial here, but maybe this is a good thing? BL/Yaoi and Romance comics are oversaturating the webcomic community. I mean everyone and their mother has a comic in those genres.

[LordVincent]

deep annoyed sigh as I pull up a post I made a long time ago to repeat the point on exactly WHY BL/yaoi has flooded the indie market, web in particular

BL webcomics...aren't they too much in the community?

deep sighOkay so op, please note my reply that follows is not targeted specifically at you, but rather this question at large and the general tendency of this question coming up again and again in various chats and forum topics - and the way the conversation tends to end up. I am not mad at you, I am not trying to attack you, I'm simply trying to educate people on the shit that goes on under the surface that is never recognized whenever these conversations are had. Please, if you truly are curious and care about equality in this matter, do hear me out.

It's not just about "sex sells".

The popularity of BL in webcomics is an immediate result of the lack of gay content made by and for gay people in traditional media. Even if you broaden the range to gay content made by and for straight people, the only place in traditional media you'll find it a thing as of right now is Japan (and to some extent Korea). Most comic creators can not go big in Japanese traditional publishing because it's run in a manner that excludes anyone western, as they think we're all lazy and shitty and that we could never provide good enough material to bother publishing. And that's if you focus on people with manga style; people who have a non-manga style have practically zero chance to get man x man romance published unless they either run their own publishing business and risk all their savings to do so, or get extremely lucky with the art community with a comic that on top of the romance makes a political statement.We don't always want to make a political statement. We don't want to be a political statement just to get recognized as people of value. We just wanna, you know, be people of value.Whenever gay content and gay creators DO get the chance to enter the western comic industry, it gets extreme backlash. People start shouting about SJW bitches ruining their favorite comics this, LGBT tokens that. Seeing the things that LGBT people or creators of LGBT content face today when going into traditional media, is it really that surprising that we opt for web instead?

Because gay content is already scarce in traditional media, not only will creators of it have to turn to webcomics, but so will also its readers. It's just a matter of audience and creator naturally finding each other in a shit situation.

BL and LGBT comics will not stop oversaturating this site until they are recognized and made equal in other mediums.Webcomics will not be an even playingfield between lgbt and cisstraight creators until the traditional industry is.

If you want to see a more equal webcomic platform, then you need to fight with us for a more equal world at large. Not mock us, question us, joke about us or criticize us for the success we see in one of the extremely few mediums where we can truly flourish. Doing so actually counteracts the development towards a more equal industry and thus increases the amount of time it will take before webcomics and traditional media alike are more fair to the respective creator types.

Also: Gay content being prevalent in indie industries is not a new thing! It's been a thing for quite a long time, before webcomics were big. It's been a thing for as long as... Well... As long as we've been pushed back hard by our own business. Go figure!

Highlighted the last bit because that one in particular is especially important.

NO, it is NOT a good thing that we are being shot down in the one place where we can flourish to our full extent and audiences can find us as easy as cisstraight people can find their cisstraight content everywhere else.

As for romance, romance is prevalent in most consumable content but in different ways because it's a topic that interests a lot of people. Simple as that. You don't get to dictate what writers write, you don't get to dictate what readers read, and saying it's good that things you dislike, that do noone harm, being unfairly shut down is somehow a good thing is rude to say the least.

[SleepingPoppy]

Being a bit controversial here, but maybe this is a good thing? BL/Yaoi and Romance comics are oversaturating the webcomic community. I mean everyone and their mother has a comic in those genres.

Please keep in mind we're not just talking about many LGBT comics being mature, but also a history of LGBT content being unfairly targeted over non-LGBT content by AdSense.

I think Vincent already does a great job explaining this, so I'm not going to pile on (also in case other people do, 'cause I know whether one is right or wrong, that's overwhelming). Just something to consider, okay?

[Rochrok]

Those are my book covers but trust me, I'm not upset about it. If I wanted adsense so bad I would have removed the covers from the site. But I'm not paying for a personal site just to censor it. I might as well use a free site. I plan to use other ad revenue companies that are okay with mature content. It's just a matter of driving up traffic to qualify. I haven't even tried to sign up for adsense.

But when I was searching around about adsense I came across mature content creators who still tried to put up adsense while having mature content up and got themselves banned. Which is why I say it's better to be safe rather than sorry. Especially if this is Webtoons answer for the possibility of losing the Pateron pledges. I wonder how long until the Google ad rules apply to the entire site and not just those who want it.

[BloodOgre]

You’re overreacting. All I said was that these genres oversaturate the webcomic community. That’s it. Nothing against either genre, nothing political against the lgbt community like you’re trying to drag in for whatever reason. All I said in essence was that these genres dwarf the others. Which they do. I’m just making an argument for more diversity.

[LordVincent]

...you didn't even read my post, did you?

If you had, you would not so cluelessly have made that last statement about "speaking for diversity".

I will repeat: these genres "dwarf the others" in indie culture because we are being shot down literally everywhere else. If you want the indie market to be a more equal playing ground, you will fight with us to even out other playing grounds because otherwise it will never happen. Not make posts like this or take pride and joy in seeing us get stomped in the one place where we can find our audience. You are counteracting the cause you claim to be for.

[punkarsenic]

(psst, youre picking at a really massive scab on this forums, and we dont wanna see it bleed again. search around, there have been many fights about this. also, id give vincent's post a read anyway; its a good bit on lgbt culture and history within webcomics. anyway, diversity is good, but shouldnt be achieved by financially punishing people - particularly vulnerable indie creators)

[Merle]

They are here because the audience is here, and so ready for them. I don´t think a market is oversaturated if there is still a high demand. I don´t know what kind of point you are trying to make anyways, since this topic is about how Webtoon is restricting a variety of adult content, and how to work around it.

[SleepingPoppy]

You’re overreacting. All I said was..

That's mad. You basically went "This might be controversial.." then followed it with, "Why are you mad? It's not like anything I said was controversial!"

I’m just making an argument for more diversity.

Sounds more like an argument for censorship.

[LordVincent]

If I ever end up making my own site or need advice for a friend, would you be fine with me asking you about the ad providers you use? It could be useful information for other mature content creators.

Actually... Maybe we should consider creating a resource library of suggested sites and tools that are respectful of our content type, so that the knowledge is shared within the community. Might be good to empower each other in times like this, I keep hearing about smaller mature content creators losing their livelihood and got a scare myself in the middle of all this.

[punkarsenic]

Maybe we should consider creating a resource library of suggested sites and tools that are respectful of our content type, so that the knowledge is shared within the community.

seconding this! even if this doesnt affect too much, having your own sites lends itself to a far more stable solution. and im always up for knowledge sharing~

[seru]

@LordVincent
@Rochrok

Looked into this to make our exclusive BL platform self-sustaining, however I haven't found any companies who are willing to put up ads on mature content.

There are adult ads you can apply for but they are very fishy.