New Webtoon Policy about Adult Content (RIP BL/Yaoi Creators)

Rochrok 2018-07-11 22:41:47 UTC #54

Well, this sucks major b*lls. Now I gotta spend most of the night removing pages and informing readers where to go to view the entire thing. sigh

UrMom 2018-07-11 23:18:43 UTC #55

I dunno, man. Reading the email I got I don't see it as that bad? Unless you draw porn/erotica, which isn't allowed on most sites anyway with the graphic sex scenes and all. (Regardless, it sucks for people trying to make a living)

Look at the Adsense addition, it seems to be a different thing than Discover Policy. If you want to sign up for the ad program via Google your work has to be child friendly. Which Webtoons was originally advertised as a PG-13 site to begin with, and they just recently added the 17+ content warning pop-ups.

Although I'm not sure how this whole thing will affect the original eligibility program Discover has. Maybe they're changing that over to the Google thing? If so, that sucks.

Also kinda surprised that none of my pages got taken down yet since some have visual depictions of drug use, alcohol consumption, nudity, and a non-graphic depiction of suicide. I guess time will tell.

darthkrievos 2018-07-11 23:27:15 UTC #56

Honestly I think everyone are worrying over pretty much nothing:
"The best way to find specific examples of our guidelines in practice is to check out our Featured Webtoons. Our Featured Webtoons appropriately portray subjects such as profanity, mature themes, and violence, respective to the style and genre of the series."

If Phantom Paradise is allowed to do the things they did, i'm pretty sure a majority of us are pretty much in the clear.

seru 2018-07-11 23:47:26 UTC #57

It's different between featured vs discover.

Discover titles starting in August will be eligible via Google Adsense revenue sharing in lieu of Patreon pledge. Google Adsense has a stricter guidelines than Webtoons. THEREFORE, anything depicting sex, drugs and alcohol will be ineligible to get that ad revenue. Get me? (Please look at the Youtube monetization example. Anything remotely "sensitive" content are demonetized.)

Then again, only time will tell how this will play out. But looking at FACTS and Google adsense's history, we will not get money off the ad revenue.

darthkrievos 2018-07-11 23:50:09 UTC #58

But this is on their own platform(Youtube) as far as i know Google has never pulled their ads on any other major website out there.

seru 2018-07-11 23:56:17 UTC #59

I think you missed the point. Re-read my last post.

Google adsense / Youtube are part of Google.

Clarification:
Your Webcomic may pass Webtoons' policy change, but it may not be eligible to be monetized via Google adsense.

ReroOnyx 2018-07-12 00:20:18 UTC #60

People, let me ask you something.

Do you think LINE, which actively supports and promotes mature material on their site would work with a program that would actively affect 90% of their base in a negative way? if Google Adsense was as bad as people claimed it to be, which its not, but for argument sakes...

Than who wins? LINE promotes too many mature series to apparently use any of these ads and Adsense can't bother to promote any of their ads on a site that barely complies with its policies. It's a lose/lose situation and if you honestly believe this is the case, then LINE Webtoons will be dead before the end of the year.

ReroOnyx 2018-07-12 00:38:14 UTC #61

And my apologies for a potential double post.

But people, if you're that worried about this. If you are so worried that Big Brother is going to go 1984 on you and every single mature context ever made is going to be punished. Why not send an E-Mail to LINE? I mean yes, LINE's response rate can be questionable at times, but that's another issue entirely.

But again, if you people are that worried, send a message. Tell LINE that you and hundreds of other people work on mature material and you want to make sure this change won't have a negative effect on them. At the bottom of the page is a little thing called "Feedback"

IN FACT

I literally just sent LINE an E-mail asking them about this and the possible concerns that Adsense might have on creators. So again, if you people are that worried...do something about it.

seru 2018-07-12 00:43:14 UTC #62

@ReroOnyx

Line has no power over Google Adsense. Obviously they need to make money and they are putting advertisers first before the creators on Discover.

Youtube has faced the same fate with adpocalypse a few months back. I'm pretty this is where Webtoons is heading be it being a free to read platform. The only way to make money is by putting ads.

LNRDink 2018-07-12 00:45:47 UTC #63

Google's that cool kid who used to rail on big government then grew up to enforce its own puritanical tyranny that for some reason it just can't see is anything like the government it claims to hate..

ReroOnyx 2018-07-12 00:49:44 UTC #64

Where? LINE isn't forced to do anything and I'll say it again if you people are that worried, do something about it. There is a feedback option on LINE, use it. Have LINE know your concerns about this. Because if you don't, then you and nobody else has any right to complain.

You have the power to make a change, to let LINE know your concerns about this.

seru 2018-07-12 01:06:04 UTC #65

I am assuming you are not familiar with the industry and how business works. I'll end this convo.

darthkrievos 2018-07-12 01:15:17 UTC #66

Phantom Paradise has ads in it and surprisingly enough it's in one chapter where it depicts violence against minors, pretty gruesome if you ask me.
What i'm trying to get at is that all of this is simply formalities, this is just a perfect excuse for in case an angry mob starts knocking on Google's door they have a legitimate excuse to refuse service.

I mean take a look at Logan Paul for example, even before the whole Japan fiasco he did so many things that are 100% against Youtube's/Google's policy, but they did absolutely nothing until there was public outcry against him.

ethereis 2018-07-12 01:24:27 UTC #67

well, the paul brothers are youtube's boys wonder. i've seen a lot of people got demonetized just for talking about something or just news channel like philip defranco got demonetized often just reporting about something with almost no political bias whatsoever. i just hope in future webtoon readers won't flag or report a comic for inappropriate rating/break the rules just because they hate it. imagine, webtoon doesnt have that much staff compared to youtube(and even them have a lot of problem reviewing all the contents).

ReroOnyx 2018-07-12 01:32:49 UTC #68

I don't really care about the industry and how the business works. You're completely missing the point here and actively trying to create an issue that isn't a problem yet. Meanwhile,instead of perhaps seeking answers from LINE the way I have, I feel most people here are complaining for no other reason than to just complain.

I know this is going to sound really mean, but if people are this worried but not doing anything about it, If you're not trying to get in contact with LINE to make sure this won't become an issue. Than sorry to say, who cares? If you and the rest won't actively make sure LINE will support its fellow creators, than why should LINE care about any of you?

Also, Youtube's system works far differently than what's being currently used by LINE. Youtube uses bots while LINE does it manually, both of which have positives and negatives to them. Bots allow freedom from personal bias but have increase errors. Manual allows for less error but leads to bias. Thankfully, LINE is apparently quite accepting of mature material. Hopefully that will continue.

Which again kind of leads to my previous question. Why would LINE use a program that most of its site couldn't be used for?

darthkrievos 2018-07-12 01:35:52 UTC #69

BTW the ads that are running on Tapas are google ads, has anyone here heard of creators getting ads pulled from their comics or getting flagged for violating Google's policy?

SleepingPoppy 2018-07-12 01:42:18 UTC #70

That’s interesting. Perhaps Tapas uses its mature content filter so that there’s no friction between content and the google ads? Just speculating.

Maybe that’ll be good news for webtoons. I’ll mostly wait and see what happens, but thank you for that info! I was wondering about that in light of the webtoons news.

SleepingPoppy 2018-07-12 01:44:12 UTC #71

I take it more as speculation. Though e-mailing webtoons is a great idea, it’s also okay for creators to share information and think about what they want to do. I wouldn’t have known much of this without this thread calling attention to it, so I appreciate the discussion!

ReroOnyx 2018-07-12 01:46:16 UTC #72

@SleepingPoppy

Another thing. Do you people remember a few months, maybe a year ago (I don't actually remember when it was) when Patreon was going to do some kind of $1 charge? Creators were outraged and they made their anger clear, to the point where Patreon had to stop this notion in its tracks.

This is why if people think this is such an issue, you should speak up and do something. If LINE gets 15-20 E-mails about this, I'd have to assume they'd want to make sure they're on good terms with their audience.

LordVincent 2018-07-12 01:48:07 UTC #73

In the same post as...

...you are literally admitting that you neither know nor care about how these things work or how things tend to go with mature content on sites that make these moves (or comics in general), in the same post that you try to override the statements of someone more experienced than you claiming they are just "overreacting". Do you not see how this makes no sense?

I understand what you are trying to say and you are free to say so but you are kindof derailing the conversation we're having about how to deal with these new changes as well as our active following of the changes to make sure we don't miss out on anything, by trying to claim we're not trying hard enough or overreacting. You do realize we have seen this happen many times before in the business right? We cannot afford wasting work hours trying to convince a platform that will not be convinced, especially not when we are already struggling with our careers being shook to the core amidst all this.

My ability to feed myself and my cat is at stake here. I don't think I'm overreacting at all.
But I will also not try to start some campaign against webtoon because I know it won't change a thing.

All I'm doing is adapting, and telling people they can come over here to tapas as long as tapas is still more respectful of artistic freedom. And you know what, that has a bit of power in and of itself.
So far, around 10% of my webtoon audience has migrated to read my comic on tapas instead... and that's in less than 24 hours. If this rings true across all mature comics on the site, webtoon could be looking at a huge audience loss. If nothing else, that will send a pretty clear sign sooner or later to sites that we're worth more than this kind of treatment.

I don't hate webtoon. I just do what I gotta do to keep my comic on there, keep giving people what they subscribed for, and keep my head above water. I didn't really wish an audience loss upon them, it's just the immediate effect of this course of action they themselves have willingly chosen to take.