New Webtoon Policy about Adult Content (RIP BL/Yaoi Creators)

[SleepingPoppy]

I feel most people here are complaining for no other reason than to just complain.

I take it more as speculation. Though e-mailing webtoons is a great idea, it’s also okay for creators to share information and think about what they want to do. I wouldn’t have known much of this without this thread calling attention to it, so I appreciate the discussion!

[ReroOnyx]

@SleepingPoppy

Another thing. Do you people remember a few months, maybe a year ago (I don't actually remember when it was) when Patreon was going to do some kind of $1 charge? Creators were outraged and they made their anger clear, to the point where Patreon had to stop this notion in its tracks.

This is why if people think this is such an issue, you should speak up and do something. If LINE gets 15-20 E-mails about this, I'd have to assume they'd want to make sure they're on good terms with their audience.

[LordVincent]

You're completely missing the point here and actively trying to create an issue that isn't a problem yet.

In the same post as...

I don't really care about the industry and how the business works.

...you are literally admitting that you neither know nor care about how these things work or how things tend to go with mature content on sites that make these moves (or comics in general), in the same post that you try to override the statements of someone more experienced than you claiming they are just "overreacting". Do you not see how this makes no sense?

I understand what you are trying to say and you are free to say so but you are kindof derailing the conversation we're having about how to deal with these new changes as well as our active following of the changes to make sure we don't miss out on anything, by trying to claim we're not trying hard enough or overreacting. You do realize we have seen this happen many times before in the business right? We cannot afford wasting work hours trying to convince a platform that will not be convinced, especially not when we are already struggling with our careers being shook to the core amidst all this.

My ability to feed myself and my cat is at stake here. I don't think I'm overreacting at all.
But I will also not try to start some campaign against webtoon because I know it won't change a thing.

All I'm doing is adapting, and telling people they can come over here to tapas as long as tapas is still more respectful of artistic freedom. And you know what, that has a bit of power in and of itself.
So far, around 10% of my webtoon audience has migrated to read my comic on tapas instead... and that's in less than 24 hours. If this rings true across all mature comics on the site, webtoon could be looking at a huge audience loss. If nothing else, that will send a pretty clear sign sooner or later to sites that we're worth more than this kind of treatment.

I don't hate webtoon. I just do what I gotta do to keep my comic on there, keep giving people what they subscribed for, and keep my head above water. I didn't really wish an audience loss upon them, it's just the immediate effect of this course of action they themselves have willingly chosen to take.

[SleepingPoppy]

I don’t know why you @ me for this? You didn’t really respond to what I said, so much as ignore me to elaborate your point.

[Akhdas]

how is sexual content, drugs, alcohol equals banning homosexuality? i don't understand

[SleepingPoppy]

LGBT content is often unfairly lumped in as inherently sexual and mature even when the content parallels the kinds of content in non-LGBT stuff. Sadly it does happen.

Independent of that, there are also a lot of creators of mature LGBT content who are just generally concerned.

[LordVincent]

In the case of youtube and google, there's an elevated tendency of LGBT creators getting strikes etc for things that cisstraight creators get away with much easier. Meaning the rules don't apply to everyone equally. When rules don't apply to everyone equally and there's a trend of minorities being slammed for it more, that means the application of the rules is discriminatory.

[ReroOnyx]

I understand what you are trying to say and you are free to say so but you are kindof derailing the conversation we're having about how to deal with these new changes as well as our active following of the changes to make sure we don't miss out on anything, by trying to claim we're not trying hard enough or overreacting. You do realize we have seen this happen many times before in the business right? We cannot afford wasting work hours trying to convince a platform that will not be convinced, especially not when we are already struggling with our careers being shook to the core amidst all this.

I can only assume but have you actually talked to LINE to see about things getting done? You're answer to this problem, just post somewhere else, doesn't address the main problem. That problem being, whatever main issues LINE is having. You're just moving to safe spot while the problem continues to grow in its current location.

In fairness, I don't think this action is wrong, anything to help yourself as a creator. Especially in moments when things are being worked on and you may not be sure where the future of these issues will stand. But as an LGBT creator and advocate, you would understand this.

It's like if someone said "If you want to support LGBT, why don't you just move to a country that supports it?"

Yes, sure you can do that and it might be a good start to help you as an individual. But that won't fix the problem at the heart and if you aren't willing to work on that, than nothing can be done. So in the end, your answer of just "moving material to Tapas" isn't necessarily wrong, or even unhelpful for creators themselves.

But it does not answer the main issue and until that main issue is answered, it will continue to grow.

@SleepingPoppy

Merely pointing out how reactions from the audience can affect things, considering that, from what I can tell, you seem relatively worried about this issue as well.

[SleepingPoppy]

Merely pointing out how reactions from the audience can affect things, considering that, from what I can tell, you seem relatively worried about this issue as well.

Kind of already know that? Which was why I agreed that e-mailing was a perfectly legit thing to do. You don't need to convince me it's a valid idea. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[60Six]

...So uh, has Webtoons always censored comments too?

Because Webtoons just censored me saying "spicy" in a completely non-sexual way.

(Which ironically made it look worse)

[ReroOnyx]

That actually happened to me one time too, I tried to use the word "Spicy" and yeah...same thing. I honestly could not tell you the answer to that, but I just assume something about LINE's comment censorship affects it.I've posted on other sites where similar things have happened.

Now I do think LINE does have regular censorship on comments like "Fuck" "Shit" and the usual...can't be sure.

It does cause issues because such a remark can come off as quite inappropriate when you never meant it as such.

[LordVincent]

That's because spicy includes the word "spic" which is a derogatory term against hispanics.

Webtoons has had an autocensor for a long time and it is completely incapable of detecting when a word appears mid word and... isn't actually a bad word.

Noone on webtoon can say "suspicious" lol

[baka_reader]

Content containing nudity or other sexual Content may be allowed if the primary purpose and context is not gratuitously graphic

But it means if someone is nude in a non-sexual way its ok? or sexual content like kissing and stroking?

[seru]

Goodluck to us all. :)) Muting this topic since it has gotten unproductive.

If the ad revenue sharing is worth the hassle, we will still post on Webtoons. If not, we're gonna leave the platform.

[Rochrok]

To those saying it's nothing. I disagree. I can't even sign up to put adsense ads on my personal website due to having a mature comic up. There are some creators who still sign up and manage to get ads on their site, but eventually Google finds out and bans them indefinitely from signing up again and whatever money you made, Google will just keep it. In other words, it's not even worth it to ignore the rules.

[ReroOnyx]

...I'm sorry but...yeah. Your website (I assume rochrok.com) is literally filled on the front page with what looks like explicitly sexual material. I'm seeing naked men sexually embracing in a titillating manner. I can't promise prejudice and discrimination for LGBT related series isn't at hand, but I also think that's become a separate argument here in some cases.

Either way, unless this isn't the website you're referring to, I am not one bit surprised Adsense won't work with you. And that's just the front page. You apparently have uncensored material which leads to who knows what. Again, if you're talking about an entirely different site, feel free to post it. Let's see just how "Mature" it is.

But otherwise...yeah...this isn't really a good argument against Adsense I feel.

[Zyephen]

That's why you put the juicy bits on patreon, and upload the non butt stuff on webtoons.

[Zyephen]

Also, if anyone is interested, Smackjeeves is a bit more lenient with their ToS regarding NSFW content, I think they also have a nice customization on their site, and have some patreon integration.
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Their ToS:
Material that would be considered legally obscene, including the depiction of child pornography, is explicitly banned from Smack Jeeves.

Comics that present material with great (or sole) priority and importance placed on evoking sexual arousal from the audience while lacking substantial quality in art, focus or presentation on other topics of interest [ie: romance, comedy, etc] are liable to be removed for bearing too close of resemblance to pornographic material rather than a comic that tackles adult subject matters.
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Here's one of my old doujinshi, that is quite gratuitous, but has been up for years with no issues. http://www.smackjeeves.com/comicprofile.php?id=108561 (Yaoi and Hent warning)

[LordVincent]

If you are going to post on Smackjeeves, be extremely careful with your cover image. The owner of that site is rather prudeish and nitpicky. You can be singled out for something so plain as having a black border on your cover. There are no clearly outlined rules for how these covers are allowed to be set up last time I checked, and it seems the rules just vary as the site owner feels.

If your comic becomes very popular you can also get sacked big time for mature content. Smackjeeves had an infamous yaoi purge a few years back, and it's most likely one of the major reasons it's so dead now.

Like with tapas, you have to keep all sexually displayed genitalia censored. Censorship requirements may actually be stricter on smackjeeves, I wouldn't know since, once again, I have never seen a clear definition nor received one in contact with the site owner, and it seems the rules vary randomly depending on the owner's mood. I am open to having my mind changed if anyone else can provide evidence that this tendency has improved on Smackjeeves.

From my understanding, having posted a yaoi comic on tapas for a couple years now and having had to communicate with staff about censorship on said comic, the censorship requirements on Tapas work as I have previously outlined:

Heya! I gotta question about posting mature content

Things that need to be censored are as follows (based upon my communications with staff last time I had to fix up my comic to keep it on the site):

Erect penises
Lubricated vaginas and anuses (or any genitalia displayed in an erotic manner)
Penetration of anus or vagina. Object, penis or finger does not matter; all needs to be censored.
Oral sex

Things that do not need to be censored

Non sexual nudity of any kind. So if you have an unaroused character shown nude, that is okay. I will divide this point by two since my understanding is that it also comes in levels:
Below the waist nudity in non sexual display is allowed but requires you to mark it as Mature/NSFW content. It doesn't require censorship however.Exception: Butts where you don't see the genitalia, displayed in a comedic manner do not appear to require a Mature content marking.

Above the waist nudity is allowed and does not require Mature content/NSFW mark at all. Gender/sex of the person displayed doesn't matter.

Obvious exception to all of the above: Displaying children in a sexual manner is not allowed. Since Tapas is US based, I do believe the line is drawn at 18, regardless of what the age of consent is in the author's country.

Expect the same guidelines for smackjeeves but beware that it might be/become stricter.

The "I know it when I see it" attitude about erotic content needs to stop and be replaced by extremely clear and abstract, logically detailed guidelines, or it will continue to be subject to potential abuse. Then again, if I may be free to say whatever I want, then I think taboos on sex need to die in general. The way I see it, sexual activity is no different from sports or eating cake. Some people need it to stay healthy, some people just get the occasional craving for it, some people would rather not. Regardless, sports and cake should be free to be enjoyed anywhere as long as everyone involved wants it, and people who don't want to be involved should neither be pressured into it, nor should they hold any right to tell people they can't have cake "because I don't want cake!!!!"

Unless you're whipping out your cake in the middle of class, a funeral or at a hospital, etc. Other situations where it would be disruptive.

But that's just me ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[UrMom]

Heck, just go the safer route and post on Comic Fury or The Duck Webcomics if you don't want to censor anything. Yeah they're small sites, you'll most likely have to take your revenue to Patreon, Tapas, Ko-fi, or commission work, but both allow pornographic material.

Also, @60Six I once posted a comment with the words 'penis' and 'vagina' in the paragraph. 'Vagina' was censored while 'penis' wasn't.