Question About Domestic Issues in Fiction

[UrMom]

I asked this question in a Discord server, receiving some mixed responses that sparked an interest in wanting to see even more opinions on this.

(CW: Discussion of abuse and violence)

In your opinion is it more disturbing/upsetting to full on show depictions of abuse? Or to imply it, show small snippets via partially "off camera" shots, silhouettes and such?

When I say disturbing I don't mean shock value, or edginess, I mean legit upset that sticks with you as an audience member/reader.

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My personal perspective is it depends on the character (someone young and strong vs. someone small and frail.), but I'm mostly for the latter, implying abuse rather than showing it. I feel showing too much could turn into torture porn, and become disrespectful for real survivors and victims or abuse. Especially with how desensitized we have become to violence in media as a society.

[cortezlord96]

It depends on your goal, and the execution. There have been comics/shows who have done both to gut wrenching success and also disrespectfully poor.

I would say if you want to go more for an emotional punch and slow dread, go for imply, less is more.
If you want that crude in your face, skin crawling gut punch of the hard face of abuse that focuses on the direct action of it, then go with the first.

[rajillustration]

Hm, it's a good question and I really think it depends on the delivery. Like in movies sometimes outright showing abuse comes off as almost slapstick instead of what it actually is. For example the whole thing with Harry Potter living under the stairs, where because it was a children's book and whimsical movie series, there was a levity to that very intense domestic abuse (like at one point he nearly starved and lived off of a stale birthday cake) and that didn't feel nearly as heavy as when in the same exact series and by the same exact author other characters like Snape and Tom Riddle had implied domestic abuse which felt way more threatening and way more disturbing. By the time we actually got to talking about that abuse, it was when the series was for YA, and so the tone was very different and all of the childish antics were basically gone. The abuse could only be seen as abuse.

So I think some authors are better at showing and others are better at implying. Kind of depends on the style and the medium the story is in.

[thedude3445]

Oh gosh I never thought about this. Did they ever... like, maybe, imply that Harry's POV in early childhood were exaggerated in any way? Was it confirmed to have all definitely happened? Because if so I suddenly don't like how the Dursleys got very little comeuppance or forcible redemption for how horrible they were.

[rajillustration]

Yeah I think she did that on purpose, where we were supposed to think of it as "oh, it's just a kid's book, it's not real" because a lot of kids books do that where there is evil step-parents and it's like whatever. But later in the series it becomes very real and the crux of why Harry is so mad all of the time. So it definitely all happened, and the Dursleys didn't get any comeuppance because they had legal protection because of wizard legal reasons, with Harry's mother's charm and as Harry's only living relatives. It was a lot of social commentary.

[S.K.O.M]

I agree with you! I think snippets of the disturbing scene one wants to show hits harder than full on detailed depiction. The important thing here isn't to bring a realistic picture, but an image a reader can create for themselves in their head. Letting/helping to lead a reader fill in some of the blanks themselves in a story is proven very effective, causing the feeling we as creaters wants to invoke linger longer. But this is just for the story-telling part.
When it comes to the respect of a actual victims, that ones is a tad bit harder, seeing as triggers can looks different for two people who experienced the same, let's say, abuse. I for one kind of loose interest or in worst case start to dislike the show/movie/comic when the parts which are meant to awoke a feeling of dread, terror, disgust and what-have-you-nots in that spectrum is just dragged out or treated like a fetish.

[surenlicious]

Survivor here, and though it highly depends for me, I do prefer the implication of abuse. The implication, I promise you, is sometimes more than enough.

[UrMom]

@cortezlord96 That's true, pretty much anything can be done well if executed properly, and the results align with your goals. Thank you for your input!

@rajillustration Ah it's times like this I wish I was able to get into Harry Potter. But that's true, and makes me think of European children's stories that have a lot of dark subjects like child abuse, and they're never really seen as particularly disturbing because the stories have such a whimsical tone. Like the original Hansel and Gretel is pretty messed up, but the story never takes that stuff seriously.

Even though I haven't kept up with HP, it's interesting how much the tone has changed since the first book. From what I've heard the latest one (don't know if it's the last one.) is a faaar departure from it's origin.

@S.K.O.M That's true! Some of the responses I got on Discord were from survivors who said it's better to show it how it is, because that was just how it was for them, and implication could make it seem less real. I wasn't physically abused as a kid, but I got emotionally trashed, and still I still deal with that shit from time to time. The type of stuff I've dealt with I'd want to be shown in full, but that's only because emotional abuse is taken a lot less seriously, and is harder to pinpoint if implied. Although there are also a lot of survivors who range from preferring implication, to outright not wanting any depiction of abuse in media, because it could be triggering for them. I agree the topic can be more iffy when thinking of the matter of respecting victims and survivors.

That's a good point you made, imagination can be a really powerful thing, and using implication to allow people to fill in the blanks can be more affective than just showing it. There have been a good few horror movies that have been ruined once the monster was revealed. Lol

@surenlicious Haah I imagine from the "sometimes more than enough", you're not a big fan of people depicting abuse in fiction. But that's understandable, given your experiences. I'm sorry you had to go through all that! Thank you for your input!

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Thank you all for your input so far, this is all really interesting to read!

[surenlicious]

Oh honey. I'm writing a whole novel based on my experience so that I can help those who suffered in silence as I did.

[demikuro]

Hmmm I think it is something that depends on each one to know to what extent you are comfortable with something and from when it becomes distasteful.

I have my preferences:

When you are showing a character being abused: Implicit.
I think there is a big difference between being a victim and victimizing a character. You want the reader's empathy. I prefer this as the line between appropriate and just for shock value is very thin and, personally, I feel that in this way I'm being respectful to my characters.

When a character is committing abuse: Explicit.
This makes you mad at the "antagonist", it makes you see what that character is capable of.

I'm not afraid of breaking my own rules if the story needs it but I see this as a baseline Very interesting topic op.

[UrMom]

@surenlicious Oh, well, nevermind. Lol
Admittedly I've never read your book, so I had no idea. Weird question that is probably obvious, do you get a different feeling reading a novel showing/insinuating abuse than a comic doing the same thing? Also do you feel novels can get away with more when it comes to heavy topics since they don't involve visuals?

@demikuro Oh nice pov! I get what you mean for the most part, but what separates the two preferences you listed? You'll need to have an abuser to have a victim, if you prefer the person committing abuse to be explicit, wouldn't it also have to be explicit for the victim? Or do you mean this from the perspective on the MC? Like if the abuser were the focus of the story you would want their actions to be shown, as opposed to if the victim were the focus you would want the abuse to be implicit.

Thank you for responding! I appreciate seeing your opinion on the topic.

[surenlicious]

Oddly enough, a novel hits me harder. They definitely can get away with more but their descriptive writing is often a breakdown of the situation in real life, where I feel a comic is often giving just a snapshot I can easily ignore. Reading a novel, especially one who does it well, that takes the time to highlight the abuse, yeah that shit can definitely scramble my head.

I really seldom have that in visual work, I'm too immune to those. But write it down, tell me exactly what the hell is going on there, hoo-boy. Winner right there.

[UrMom]

Fff I can see that! Movies and TV shows, at least in the US, have become so overly saturated with violence that it's not even shocking to look at anymore. The use of abuse or sexual assault as the driving force for a character's tragic backstory is practically standard nowadays, at least for female characters. I can see novels adding a lot more dread, the reader has to use their imagination, and with the right use of words the reader can be sent spiraling. I remember seeing a video on a certain subject in fiction (can't remember what it was.), at some point the person brought up a book that influenced them while growing up, and they pointed out specific paragraphs that had a lot of impact due to the author's use of words.
I'm kinda babbling by now, but stuff like that always makes me want to get into reading more books. I never really did while growing up because I had trouble reading for some reason, probably a developmental issue I never got a diagnosis for, but now I'm really bad a getting into books despite not having trouble with it anymore. Lol

Has there ever been any visual work showing that kind of stuff that has disturbed you? If you don't mind me asking, you can totally not answer if you don't want to.

[surenlicious]

Hmm...while I cannot quickly come up with a specific example, I always rolled my eyes at TV shows like Criminal Minds or any crime series that seem to have a need to outdo themselves with picking apart a victim in the most disturbing way. Oh wait, the movie Butterfly Effect had a believe some domestic stuff that made me squeamish back then, I should check if that shit hurts still. The tolerance level kicks in when I least expect it. XD

[UrMom]

Wow, I haven't seen that movie in literal years, forgot it even existed! Wow! Rewatching some of the scenes I can see how they could have some affect, the abuse is treated a little differently from how most other media portrays it. I've heard of the least likely stuff triggering PTSD or anxiety in people with traumatic childhoods, so that doesn't sound unexpected. Then again, you did say most other media showing that stuff is ineffective, so I imagine that would feel random. I guess the beats hit just right for you.

[domisotto]

All I know is that I didn’t like it & would not read it. I once read a book with 12 chapters of the main character being pummelled, and I ended up giving up, I just couldn’t stand it. But, it had millions of reads, so I guess, it’s working.

[UrMom]

So any depiction is too much for you? That's fine, there's a reason the majority of fiction (at least on the internet) is escapist, it's not most people's thing and many can't even handle consuming heavy subjects. Also, wow, 12 chapters of just a character being beaten?? Not gonna lie, that is pretty excessive, just sounds like pure torture porn.

If you don't mind me asking, what's your stance on subjects like abuse existing in fiction? Like do you believe authors shouldn't depict heavy topics in their work? Or are you fine with it as long as these authors stay in their own lanes?

[domisotto]

People can do what they want to do, but I am not going to read it, because I just don’t enjoy it. I mean, I chose to read it, because I was looking at successful authors, but this way to success was not for me

[UrMom]

Ah alright!

Just to clarify in case there is any misunderstanding. The type of depiction of abuse I'm talking about for fiction isn't stuff that revolves around abuse, as stated in the OP I mean stuff that isn't edgy or meant to be shock value, which can double as torture porn. My question was meant as whether implication or full on showing abuse was more disturbing, or effective in any fiction that has depicted it (in a way that wasn't meant to be edgy).

Star Trek (2009) is an example of what I mean with Kirk being abused by his stepfather as a kid, and Tangled is another example of a movie depicting abuse, it's emotional abuse but it's still abuse. Surenlicious also brought up The Butterfly Effect having visual abuse that actually disturbed them when they saw it. If you're going off my comic for what I mean in the OP, that is an awful example since it's borderline torture porn.

Now that I've added that detail, yeah totally! It's interesting that you gave it a try, and I completely understand you not being into a character being beaten for 12 chapters. I don't think I would be into that either.

[cortezlord96]

No problem, thank you for posing this important question