Reviews that aren't critique?

[FritzC]

I am not saying that technical reviews aren't an art form or a good thing. All I'm saying is I personally have an interest in literary analysis, I'd love to see it implemented more in the comic scene, and if anyone has a similar interest I wanna talk to them?

I don't know why saying this is controversial, it's just another take on media consumption and the interpretation of said media.
I'm not asking why everyone on the tapas forums can't offer a literary analysis of my work, or saying people are uneducated if they can't and that other reviews are somehow less valid. I'm saying that I would find it very cool to see more of it in the comic industry as a whole and if there are any people whp read the post and it resonates with them, I'd like to see their work.

[FritzC]

I am literally making a thread for people to talk about this. I stated it in my original post, that I would love to see this more in the art community, I am not saying it should replace any other forms of critique on the forums.

Also, I just asked for 0eople who might share this interest to show me their comics? If there are no one who thinks the same, then they could simply not reply. This is literally just a thought I had about critical readings of comics and its not necessarily only for creators on tapas, it's for the whole genre in general.

[TAMAnnoying]

Well if you dont mind a literary critique of you post it truly sounds like you're upset that people don't critique in a way you prefer as a standard- or, you're asking a very odd question "why is no one giving out literary analysis of comics?" and assuming a very drastic assumption of "its because people dont take comics seriously"

rather then the more obvious thought "because no one asked for that, so no one gave it." Again what your asking for is a rather high in the skills department for most amature writers like the rest of us. which is why like most people would do for an art project is simply ask for that kind service which anyone who is willing or feels capable of doing so would give it to you.

if you look at most of the review threads what are the OP usually saying? They ask people to tell them about their art style, sometimes they're writing ability. you rarely ever see anyone ask for a type of reveiw your asking for- so just like in most markets, since there is no demand there is no supply.

If you want to see more of it done- at least here on these fourms i would say either ask for it more often or BE that person who gives them out, so when people see and apricate it, they will wish to ask for it more often.

[FritzC]

I am not asking why no one is reviewing my comic in a specific way. I basically never enter the review threads here.

I am saying, that I would find a literary analysis interesting, as opposed to a technical one. I don't mind that there are threads of technical critique, it doesn't bother me and I don't enter them.

I am posing the idea, that it would be cool, if people who all liked literary analysis and comics connected, because I think it would be a valuable input to the comic scene and discourse.
I said in my original post, that it anyone felt like their comic fit the bill, they were welcome to link it, I also said that this is not a review thread, unless anyone wants to review a comic in it, then that's fine.

This isn't about me not getting the reviews I want, it's about me sharing a thought about media consumption and critical reading of media, and I'm asking if people who share this interest would like to talk about it.

[CytricAcid]

to be fair, in fandom spaces, i have found no one cares about literary analysis unless it has to do with their ships or specific headcanons.
finding people who want to critically analyze a piece of media in its whole, finished or not, are few and far between.

[toohalloo]

I agree with the last point - I think that asking for and giving literary analysis when prompted is a good and productive way to get the ball rolling in online comics circles. That said, I think there is an existing audience, so to speak, for this level of interaction with media, largely in the more fine arts/IRL realm. This is the kind of discussion you'd expect in any writing class, collegiate to local library. Right now we don't have those. I don't think it hurts to try to discuss works at this level here on the forums, especially given that we can't really talk about comics in spaces that normally would engage on the level.

I suppose my view of OP wasn't as (for lack of better term) standoffish as your impression, which is fine! That said, having a bit of faith in people's intentions can't hurt either.

These are largely original creations we're talking about - I think taking them seriously as writerly art, which comics tend to be, is more helpful to the craft than hurtful.

[vothnthorvaldson]

So, I can say I'm the type who love literary analysis.
I'm the 'crazy collector' type when it comes to analysis of my favorite novels (mostly classical literature, so there is everything that I need), and also tend to read everything (including comics), with at that -at least- in the back of my mind (or more prominently, when the work particularity lends itself to it).

However, I rarely propose such analysis to someone, and when I do, it's on a specific aspect, that I found particularity fascinating, or when I can guess a secondary potential interpretation because I know the creator and their specific interests or influences, etc.

Never a whole, complete analysis. Because it is extremely time consuming and taxing*.
I'd say the only case I could imagine doing that would be as an exchange with someone I love the work of, and who is also interested in doing it for my work. And I would really need to be sure both of us want to do it because we find it interesting and not only because we want to read what the other has to say.

*I never did complete analysis of comics, but I used to do analysis of concept albums (mainly metal) and it could take me weeks or even months to go through everything I wanted to discuss, do my research, organize and finalize the analysis. Exhausting. I'm sure some people are quicker, but it's probably somewhat taxing for anyone.

[FritzC]

I also love literary analysis (obviously by this thread) and have made multiple throughout my academic career.

What I'm doing here is not trying to say everyone should make 15 page literary analyses of random comics, I'm just saying that it's a perspective and form of media consumption and interpretation I would love to see applied more to comics as whole.

The fact that I stated, that I would be interested in seeing a critical reading of my own comic, is not a thinly veiled plea for critique, as was suggested earlier in this thread, but just a personal observation that lead me to the thought, that that would be an interesting angle to analyse webcomics from. :>

[vothnthorvaldson]

I understand, but that works for you or others: I don't do it in general, because it's way too intense for me to do, compared to giving technical advice (at my level, because I'm really a beginner in comics).
Also the large difference for me is also how technical advice can be pretty unemotional and impersonal and still be useful, whether literary analysis can quickly get more personal and may end up in laying yourself bare even more than when writing your own works. So altogether, I can get that it is not something that everyone would do and share as readily as some technical advice.

[Siromany]

I really enjoy literary analysis and I feel comics are a great medium for making symbolism and themes due to being able to put visuals in backgrounds or in subtle moments. It's a nice touch and great for rereading over. I do often find people who critique content usually do it on a technical level. Like, how the art looks, or how well its written. I enjoy looking deeper than technique, I love reading into subtext and digging deeper in the meanings of what the author is trying to convey in the comic. I wish there was more threads and discussions dedicated to analyzing a comic based on these merits.

[CytricAcid]

why does everyone here expect a 15 page essay on the themes of the comic
it's not hard to mention some symbolism you picked up while reading, like "hey i really like how this character's warm color theme makes them seem really warm and happy and literally brightens up the room whenever they enter"

[vothnthorvaldson]

But people already do that all the time in comments, don't they?

[FritzC]

Yeah I understand your point, however I'm not asking anyone who doesn't want to, to open up their comic to critical literary analysis. I'm also not asking that people who don't want to give any feedback or thoughts on themes, symbolism or any other such elements in a comic should be forced to do so. Everyone who wants technical critique are more than welcome to ask for that, but that's just not what I was talking about in the original post.

[vothnthorvaldson]

I was merely trying to find some explanations to why people are more likely to give technical advice than literary analysis, as you were comparing these two types of feedback

[FritzC]

Ah, I see.
I guess I wasn't thinking of it as a comparison thread, and more of a "wouldn't it be cool if we also did this" thread.

[DiegoPalacios]

And what I really would love, is a literary analytical kind of angle reviews on my work. Like, most of us probably put symbolism into our comics, be it with mythipoeia, classic symbols like violins, precious metals, dead flowers and other things that can and does bear inherent symbolic meaning...Anyway I guess I'm just interested in that side of comics, and I wish we talked about it more

You mean, like an english teacher????

Jokes aside, i get your point. The tricky part of criticizing symbolism is that is up to interpretation of the reader, so they may not get what you were trying to convey or not notice the symbolism at all. Every person has their unconscious biases, and said biases will lead to different interpretations.

That speculation can be interesting and just like most forms of engagement, is spontaneous so it can't be forced.

It is possible to use psychological and writing tricks to make symbolism more noticeable, but that is also hard to balance because if it's to obscure, almost no one will notice, and if it is too obvious, will feel cheap and "on the nose".

Another aspect to consider is that symbolism needs a purpose in a story, so adding symbolism for the sake of it will only lead to empty build-ups without a pay of.

[TAMAnnoying]

I mean that's fair, if you're just looking for other people to geek out with you then whatever, just be wary that other people felt you're original post felt like you had more ire then originally intended, by way of how many seemed to be confused by your response. ^^;

Still to talk about what you actually wanted to talk about- I'm all for a little symbolism in my work, ill even throw some in from time to time but i wouldn't think i'm as good at it as some of the other comics i read- not only that but its not my favorite part of analysis when it comes to reviews. Im more of a cause and effect analysis kind of girl as well as some character consistencies. Thats what my friends come to me for help with anyways ^^; cause its def not the spell checks X'D

I wish i could be better at analyzing and implementing symbolism in mine and others works but i think i agree with @DiegoPalacios that sometimes the problem comes from different cultures/people having different ideas of what a symbol could mean. Just like the color pink is feminine in some cultures but masculine in others. Its a tricky thing to work with.

.

[Kaydreamer]

I'm totally with you on this! Comics are so often waved aside as 'for kids', or 'junk lit', and I find that deeply frustrating. My favourite comics are dripping with symbolism, and are more than worthy of literary analysis.

There's so much scope in the comic medium to really push this kind of thing as well - artistically, from the colour palettes we choose, to little objects in the settings and environments our characters exist in changing over time. Details in architecture evoking a comfortable vs an unsettling feeling... Character design. There's so much.

And where the writing is concerned, there's as much to dig into in a really good comic as there is in a novel. The language used, the underlying character motivations and psychologies, broader themes and philosophies... They're all there, at least in something which is well-written.

I'm not terribly focused on including much deliberate symbolism in my comic yet, as my attention is still on learning the ins and outs of the medium itself. I'm still in practice-mode, and will be for a few years. But as I progress, I do intend to become more deliberate and thoughtful, and it's refreshing to see another person here who takes an interest in critical literary analysis of comics/webcomics. As creators, we can only benefit from such in-depth attentiveness being applied to our work. (And applying it to ourselves as we pursue mastery of our craft!)

[orbitkatart]

I think maybe a better place to satisfy this craving for literary critique is on this discord. If you chose the Librarian role, the goal is to pick a comic/novel a week to discuss (like a book club)

Join the Tapas Dreams Discord Server!

[NickRowler]

I feel like I have been in situations where I wanted to talk to people about their writing but found it a bit difficult to explain.

I think the reason why most people focus on surface level stuff is it is the easiest to point out and correct. Like telling someone "it is difficult to read your text, try using a different font".

However, trying to explain why their dialogue is weak and needs to be rewritten is a bit harder to explain to someone.

Example: I once read a comic that had a teacher telling a student "You are late! Late again!!!" OK, how to I address this line is weak in a way someone would understand?