Rot in the forum

[JRHoch]

Perhaps if flagging wasn't anonymous, people would flag more carefully or, better yet, not at all. Don't like a post...move on to the next one.

[skicoak]

Perhaps if flagging wasn't anonymous, people would flag more carefully or, better yet, not at all. Don't like a post...move on to the next one.

Or if you wanna retain the anonymous aspect, limit the amount of flags people can use. If they can limit 's, they can surely limit flags.

And not just as a daily thing...pay attention to who flagged 20 things a month or a 100 a year.

[JRHoch]

I've never flagged anything, so for me if someone has flagged 5 times, that would be, uhm, er, a red flag.

[skicoak]

I've never flagged anything, so for me if someone has flagged 5 times, that would be, uhm, er, a red flag.

I flagged spam once to get the badge.

It's all about the badges!

[JRHoch]

Oh, well I want that badge too! Don't be surprised if your arse gets flagged!

[skicoak]

If there was a badge for GETTING flagged, I'd be all about it.

Seriously though, I got a post sitting at 24 's and a topic hovering at 21 's and I'm just screaming for those sweet sweet badges to drop.

[vothnthorvaldson]

I never flagged, so I don't know how it is.
Do one have to give a reason?
The forum I moderated the longest would have various subcategories.
There were a few easy to moderate (spam, blatant insults etc) and one less specific that could be used for 'problematic' messages.
We would be particularily careful with individuals using repeatedly the less specific flag or trying to trick us (eg. Flagging as spam an opinion they don't like). Because it's always the same in general, it's pretty easy to disregard them after a while.

I'd like to know how mods decide what flags are not pertinent ie. which flagged messages should be kept on the forum.
I did not get enough nice messages flagged and removed to do statistics. But the fact that it happened make me wonder if the flagged messages are actually read. If they are removed in all cases, then that explains why the problem persists.

[luvij]

People are still talking about that art level thread? And wow the behind their back talking and rumor spreading on this thread doesn't actually surprise me at all anymore. I think I know how these popular cool kids operate on this site. You dance around the forum rules just barely breaking them, but nonetheless are very passive aggressive and condescending while at the same time playing a victim, and worst of all not making any substantial arguments at all, rather being pedantic and whining about points that are completely irrelevant for the topic at hand. I really did wish these people here at some point could accept that people have differing opinions, radically different, opinions that contrast the hive mind here so much that it's easy to get offended, but then again, if you counter those argument by red herring and ad hominem, doesn't that mean you admit defeat?

[skicoak]

I'd like to know how mods decide what flags are not pertinent ie. which flagged messages should be kept on the forum.

From observations, once the decision to lock the thread is made...they're not going back and restoring community flagged posts. That's one of the points of escalating the conflict...there's been a history of locking down stuff when it gets to a certain point/pitch. Once the thread is non-viable, why would mods go back in to check/correct every post/flag?

Even as much as I hate the practice, I don't expect the mods to be keeping a running tab or go back on old posts to observe the pattern. That's a lot of work to do...that still functional boils down to personal observations that require mods to guess on motivations to establish if it's a plan or just circumstance.

We were once at a point were saying it happens was "crazy talk" but now enough people are aware of it to at least is observable.

[skicoak]

People are still talking about that art level thread?

Just as a point of clarification, this was going on in much older threads too. It's not all recent.

And could of happened to people who just went away...as planned...and never raised a fuss or fought about it.

[JRHoch]

I believe one could get flagged for overuse of discriminatory terms or farming minutiae.

[vothnthorvaldson]

No, I meant, at the time they recieve the info something has been flagged, do they read said message?
I saw so many flagged messages from various people, before they were removed, that had no reason whatsoever to be removed, but disappeared anyway. Were they read and considered harmful, or were they not read, is what I wonder.
Same for closed topics. There are topic that got closed, that make me scratch my head. I can't imagine a mod read them and thought, this has to be closed. So I'm wondering whether it's done by s person, but kind of in an automatic mode (whoch I can understand if too much work. I'm not judging, just trying to understand how things works.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Oh yes there are other reasons than spam or insults to flag, the problem is the amount of flagging by same people and how low (or inexistant) the offense is.

[skicoak]

No, I meant, at the time they recieve the info something has been flagged, do they read said message?

It's a good question.

I'm more familiar with the closed thread variety...which usually comes in the form of them showing up at the drunken after party stage of these threads. Logistically, there's just a limited number of them...so it's less like lifeguarding and more like crime scene clean up...right?

When you go back through those locked threads, they're not correcting community flags but they're also not giving you a warning for an actual infraction. The mere fact I've gotten so MANY
automated flagged by community messages but have only been sent to the corner once bears this out.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Ok, good to know.
I actually have very little problems with direct flagging because I understood quickly what not to say and I'm going this way (I shut up and refrain from posting in many threads) even if I'm very disappointed that I have to. But as I got a very nice post flagged and removed, I was just wondering. Must have been a error but it really upsetted me because that was a conciliatory post. That does not encourage people to be nice when such posts are removed. But moderation errors happen.

Most of my posts that got removed were due to the whole thread being removed or archived. The outcome is the same though. Only one is even less in control. And my main issue with getting bullied on this forum is not linked to flagging. More pernicious.

But again I don't have a solution. I'm a bit puzzled by this forum I must say.

[LordVincent]

You can't silence someone with flags. The message can still be read as long as the moderator hasn't decided it was so rule breaking or destructive that the post needed to be removed. Posts that have been well liked by community members have been flagged to the point of being "hidden" (which you can easily get to show by just clicking the message stating it's hidden) by members that oppose the opinion, I've had this happen to myself multiple times. It doesn't happen on an organized level.

If flagging is mentioned in any of the discords I am in, it's usually just someone saying "I flagged that guy", sometimes stating a reason - usually reasons that are actually relevant to the forum rules!! But rarely if ever have I seen anyone go "guys please flag this person" or "lets flag him so his message is hidden". And if that happened, I think that person would be called out for attempting a conspiracy because quite frankly, the types of people in those discords is of as large a variety as they are in the forum! There's no way anyone would be able to create an organized attack in them lol, if anything things tend to be wilder in the discords because people use them more for emotional venting so that they can stay reasonable in the forums. AS THEY PROBABLY SHOULD, because if people laid their emotional beef out in the forums it would be HELL for moderators to deal with. If you want civilized conversation, you'll have to accept that people need somewhere else to take their emotions. And, on that note, you are not entitled to knowing every little detail of someone elses opinion. If there are certain feelings they would rather keep to themselves or somewhere else, they have every right to do so. That's not a conspiracy, that's just how privacy and social interaction works.

Multiple flags won't lead a mod to shut a thread down in and of itself. There have been occasions before where ratique flat out stated "stop flagging where a flag is not needed" and DIDN'T shut the thread down despite it overflowing with flags. The moderators make a judgement of their own and decide whether or not to ban members or shut a thread down based on the rules of the forum and based on how problematic they deem a thread has become.

I don't always agree with the moderators' decisions either. I've been flagged before too. But I will stand by the fact that there is no way you can genuinely manipulate the forums as a non mod using the flag system.

I've seen ACTUAL manipulation in a forum before. In that case, a neo nazi became friends with the most active moderator and thus managed to get away with continuously evading bans, kept coming back with sock puppet accounts to troll people he didn't like, and then convinced the moderator to ban the people that had enough and told him off for his troll behavior. This gradually led to the downfall of the entire forum, which eventually shut down. After which he tried to lure people to go to his forum instead.

I've seen manipulation in forums, this ain't it.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Well, in my experiences as mod, flagging was misused by default and in certain conditions it does become a real issue.
What is varying is the intensity of misuse and the way mods are reacting. Which in the cases I personnally help manage, was mostly depending on how much time mods had.
It's totally possible to use flagging to control a forum to various degrees without mod's approval or even knowledge. Actually, in most of my experiences, this was happening cyclically when mods were too busy with their own lives, and the problem was disappearing/getting under control with new mods appointed or existing mods became more available.

I have no idea at what point we are on this forum, though, and as I said I don't judge or attack mods.

[mrtoontastic]

A ROT? Where's the rot? It's smelled like the same place since I joined in 2016. Dirty, smelly, but with one or two pairs of clean socks every now and again.

[minerrale]

All right.
I don't like meddling, I don't like calling names, but this is going too far.
Marius, you are well-liked in this community, and so far most of what I've seen on this forum is love, care and respect. You've been misled by someone who was the first to actually speak behind your back on that server.
That person's thirst for attention knows no bounds, and she prefers whining and sewing discord in any community to actually try to improve her own issues.
I'm sorry that you had to go through such a hard time because of it.
The people on the Discord server that was referred to spent a lot of time and energy trying to HELP her, and thi is how we're rewarded.
There is indeed rot.
But not where we thought to find it.

[ratique]

Wasn't there the argument that people could take advantage of the flagging system?

No, every flag is reviewed by a mod. Extensive, unneeded flagging is actually a reason to get in trouble.

Either way, the group would be aware that a contentious thread with a bunch of community flags is likely going to get shut down and locked by the moderators. Most people in that thread shrug their shoulders and move on, but if you're the targeted individual...you look and feel like you and your opinion are getting silenced.

There are always ways to contact moderators in person to point out that someone is singled out by a groups, so that the mod can keep an eye on it and step in if needed. There are really not many other steps that can be taken by a site to stop bullying behavior - our forum very often polices itself with members stepping up for others. You may think that doesn't happen, but it does.

Perhaps if flagging wasn't anonymous, people would flag more carefully or, better yet, not at all. Don't like a post...move on to the next one.

Mods see exactly who flags - you're only anonymous to other users.

Or if you wanna retain the anonymous aspect, limit the amount of flags people can use.

I believe there already is a limit. We reached it often when we were flooded by spam bots.

I'd like to know how mods decide what flags are not pertinent ie. which flagged messages should be kept on the forum.

Case by case basis. Some messages are flagged because of personal reasons, and then the flag is usually removed.

No, I meant, at the time they recieve the info something has been flagged, do they read said message? I saw so many flagged messages from various people, before they were removed, that had no reason whatsoever to be removed, but disappeared anyway.

Yes, the messages are all read.
Sometimes users remove their own messages, not sure if you mean that. If multiple people flag a post at the same time, it gets auto-hidden and mods restore it if we disagree with it.

When you go back through those locked threads, they're not correcting community flags but they're also not giving you a warning for an actual infraction.

Posts are sometimes closed when the conversations have run their course, or if a topic had been discussed in the past and turned ugly. We work with experience at times and don't wait for you guys to become mean to each other.

Also, when a thread receives many individual flags we often decide to close it. It very often means there is a major issue with the thread.

When a thread is long, we also simply don't have the time to read through a hole thread to clean it up and only hide the posts that are the potential issue. Closing it is the simplest solution, even if you don't like that solution much.