Rot in the forum

mariusthered 2019-08-18 10:00:27 UTC #1

People often say this is a wonderful Forum and everyone is so friendly here.
Well that’s how it use to be.

But the sad truth of the matter this Forum is no longer the place it was and a rot has begun to sneak into this once pleasant community. I am not writing this thread to spread that rot or to tell people what to do, at the end of the day If things don’t improve I can walk away, stop posting in the forum and just post my comic updates without caring how this community is doing. but I do care and it's time to pay that rot some attention.

The 5th Guideline of the community guidelines says…

Have Fun
This might seem silly, but seriously, we want everyone here to be happy. This might be my personal tyrannical decree, but I really want everyone to want to be here. If you're not having fun on the forums, please think of why and what we can do to make it better. After that, I want you to reach out to me and we'll see what we can do to make things fun again.

Well I’m not having fun.
We have people openly annoying each other instead of trying to help and encourage them.
People going over to discord and talking about people behind the back of others.
people making threads just to cause trouble.
Dose this sound like a community to you?

I thought this place was for artist’s to come together and help one another and form international friendships, sharing skills and ideas.

But the harsh reality is this is just the same as any other internet forum. people with good intentions bullied and harassed by trolls who think talking via a computer gives them the right to just do and say thing to upset people.

Lets remind you of rule one should we….

There's Never a Wrong Time to be Polite
Always be courteous to your fellow Tapastic readers and creators. Don't forget that there is a real person behind every post, who, just like you, wants to be treated with respect and tolerance. Keep your cool even in the most heated discussions. Above all else, I want everyone to feel safe and welcomed in our forums. Any behavior that threatens the culture we've all helped to build will not be tolerated.

And on the note of “there is a real person behind every post, who, just like you, wants to be treated with respect and tolerance.”

let me lastly address the issue that has been the final straw for me.

It has come to my attention that someone (one or more) has been talking behind my back on discord saying I should leave the forum because I am too old! (48)

so lets take a moment to look at that should we.

1. I am not the oldest person here and as far as I am aware the only age restriction to this forum is not allowing young kids on

2. what the hell is wrong with being old? Who says you only have a limited time to be a comic artist?

Simon bizley is age 57 still working

Tod McFarland is age 58 still working

Stan Lee was drawing up until his 70’s

Jack Kirby was still working as a comic artist up until his death age 76

now I am in no way saying I am in the same class as these great artist’s, but we do have two things in common age and experience.

Experience in art is not something you will find in any of your fancy app’s or software, it’s something that takes time to learn, often the hard way. And that Experience is not given freely without the simple payment of respect.

those who think that this forum is just for the young have to face one reality. You too are getting old and when you reach 40 plus younger people will treat you with the same disrespectful way. When that day comes I hope my words haunt you and you feel just as low as I did when I found out about this.

And there we go, my piece is said and now it’s up to you people to either make this forum a better place or continue squabbling and back biting. I will be watching this thread but don’t think for a second I’m going to waste my time getting drawn into petty arguments.

End of the day the world is full of negativity. Making an effort to keep that away from this forum will result in creativity and make it a better place to visit.

Marius the red.

jensrichard77 2019-08-18 11:15:25 UTC #2

That’s just sad to hear. I’m so sorry that you had to experience that kind of nonsense.

I’m happy to inform that from my point of view it seems like a small individual issue.

This does not reflect any of my experience in this community.

And I have great ongoing comic work with all ages and sex and so on...

I’m 42 btw. And I only see respect even that some get supprised. But I never felt this as an issue.

I did once became an elephant in a glasshouse. But that was outside Tapas where some creators were chatting on Twitter. And yes.. In that forum I didn’t belong.
But that did not continue at Tapas. It stayed at Twitter

Merle 2019-08-18 11:31:45 UTC #3

Ok. I just want to clarify that I don´t know where that rumor orriginated, but I am in a lot of discords (also the one that´s been "trashtalked" these last days ), and I´ve never come accross the statement that anyone is too old for making comics or being on the forum, and I would hate to hear that from anyone, strongly dissagree with such a sentient.
I think with different age groups, different views on society etc. can clash, and that can lead to some frustration etc. But those are all discussions that this forum should be open to; and the insight of "older" or middle aged people can be very helpfull for many, too, it´s no boundary to form connections and friendships. And definitely not to having different kinds of discussions in this forum.
I don´t know how to comment on the rest of your statement. but wanted to make a clear stance on that.

AceRagz 2019-08-18 11:41:12 UTC #4

I have no problems with you man. In fact I got a lot of respect since I've started here three months ago. I always see you joking around at times our opinions line up too so I hope you don't leave the forum. I'm 39 but people say I act way younger and at times I will agree that I can be immature for my age but then again I don't think I've changed much since I was twenty but being an older age should never be a factor in if someone should be exiled off a forum.

There is a problem with the forum I agree on that. I will argue and fight for my opinions but I would never cuss someone out over it. I was shocked when the art level thread got shut down. I went in to see that it was over someone feeling their favorite artist was insulted and they started ripping everyone a new one over it. You would have thought they took this on as some kind of holy war. The rudeness and outright viciousness can be seen in shut down threads. You can even see it coming in some. I've seen people just fan the flames in old troll fashion.

I don't really have any solutions for all of this but something does need to be done.

mariusthered 2019-08-18 11:50:20 UTC #5

agreed. just shutting threads down is not the way to go in my opinion. trolls need to be dealt with by Mods, after all is that what community leaders should do? (and no i'm not saying it's an easy job)

spicy_sweets 2019-08-18 11:57:35 UTC #6

I thought that's why people got banned? Ie the red person who got banned til.... I think 2043?
Unless you mean mods actually confronting them about their actions?

AceRagz 2019-08-18 11:58:31 UTC #7

Yup same person that got the art level thread shut. That ban was very justified.

spicy_sweets 2019-08-18 12:01:27 UTC #8

Yeahhh. It's a pity the thread couldn't continue afterwards tho.

Iris-Grimoire 2019-08-18 12:03:15 UTC #9

Discord gossip really can get out of hand, this isn't the first time I've heard about it on forums/communities I visited. And to be honest, OP, you're really helpful, you lighten things up, and you've been welcoming to a lot of new artists that showed up around the same time I did; I have no idea why that's what someone latched on to.

Being an artist community working on independent comics, the LAST thing we should be doing is gatekeeping, come on. Art is inherently hard to market and internet content is even harder, let's not step over each other and instead help each other.

AceRagz 2019-08-18 12:03:33 UTC #10

Yes it restarted just fine in a new thread. the old thread could have been salvaged though by the ban then flagging or deleting the rude posts.

unknown_user 2019-08-18 12:12:10 UTC #11

@mariusthered People who don't like you always will find a reason to disrespect. At first, people don't want listen to you, because you are "too" young, so you have "no life experience" and "no brains" to say anything smart... then, when you grow up, people don't want to listen to you, because you've become "too" old, so, you are "obsolete" and "don't know anything about contemporary life"...

About why some people truly don't like you - my assumption is, that it's because you often say unpopular opinions.
At least, I've seen it going this way to myself. When I say righteous, nice, good words, which are in harmony with dominant morality of forum participants, everyone are nice to me. But when I say something controversial, part of the people start attempts of trolling me or behave hostilely. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ The last one is the most applicable to people, who don't know me well and thus don't understand the context, in which I'm saying something or origin of my point of view... so they think I'm kinda bad guy and put their righteous anger to me
Not that I'm surprised in any way. Of course, people are nice, when you are agree with them, and of course, at least part of them become "rightly angry", when you disagree. That's how society works.

StrangeVision 2019-08-18 12:14:47 UTC #12

I already respected you @mariusthered, but now I respect you even more.

JRHoch 2019-08-18 12:19:37 UTC #13

I have to respect anyone who cares deeply about a topic. So, good for you for posting a well-articulated thread. But rot can be in the eye of the beholder.

Respect is important but so is a sense of humor. And so is tolerance for people with different perspectives. Not every person has to be taken so seriously or met with torches and pitchforks because they are a bit edgier or grumpier or more conservative.

A couple of months back I got flagged on a comment to @skicoak. It was a pretty innocuous comment, part of our usual playful routine, but some OTHER people, not involved with the conversation, got offended and complained. I ended up deleting the post and apologizing, but now I wish I hadn't. I should have stood up for free speech. (And, no, I'm not talking hate speech.)

I've seen @Kazsup post and delete many comments and one time an entire thread, now infamously known as the "Nothing Thread." I think a forum where people have to constantly second guess whether every word they say is going to bother some individual or subgroup is a problem. It stifles creative exchange and can lead to a very boring environment.

Jenny-Toons 2019-08-18 12:28:33 UTC #14

I've been in a number of these discords,actually a mod for one of them, and I can say that it's less "sneak-dissing" and more of people just venting what they've already talked about in the threads directly to whoever they were talking about or whatever topic they disliked. They'll even be in the same server as the person they disagreed with and will still vent. They usually talk it out, and it's done -- over with. Let's be honest -- you will not like everyone and not everyone will like you. As noted in the following thread, most people think this way:

Yeah, there is a rot in the forums. We still get people who have already been banned but keep coming back again and again under different accounts. Threads have been shut down because things became too heated. There are also users who purposefully misunderstand things (might even lie) in order to serve up drama both in the forums AND within some of these discords. Won't say who some of these users are, but it gets to the point where they're either banned or ignored until they leave. So yeah -- there is a rot.

But, as far as I know, when it came to these servers, no one had ever said "this person shouldn't make comics because XYZ". They have questioned the content and context of their work, which was also stated in the forums directly to the person.

Now, how to combat it is another thing to talk about. After all, even with banning, we still had people coming back. So I do question that, even if the forum mods talked to them, would they change their behavior?

snailienz 2019-08-18 12:50:37 UTC #15

I have noticed a few people that like to throw out "hot button" words trying to start a "debate" where they don't listen and just continually say they are right when someone takes the bait. It's a frustrating thing to watch. The negative attitude kinda resonates out every time they reply to something. I wish saying something to these types would help but...it really just does no good.

I'm older too. (Only 29...not quite as up there but I get tbe same thing sometimes.) People have told me to leave social media platforms back when I was 25-26, and some discords have just kicked me out two days later because of my age. I get it in some instances, because I joined and immediately realized the whole group was teenagers, but you whipper snappers wouldn't have your hamsteaks and your markipliers if the internet had an age restriction like that. Public spaces do not have age restrictions and that is why there are adults only areas in the first place.

As for the "rot"... much like the horror of a leftover you forgot about in the fridge...it is unavoidable. The internet is public. There will be bad people. The best way to deal with them os to ignore them until you find the time to dump them in the trash.

Jenny-Toons 2019-08-18 12:54:54 UTC #16

Exactly, and these are the same types who misunderstand your words in the first place. They're also the ones to ignite the "debates" that close threads down. Not because of conflicting opinions but because of attitudes. A lot of the closed threads DID have conflicting opinions, but they're told in a civil manner. It's until the one or two users show up with that attitude problem and cause the chaos.

I still don't know where the "too old to make comics" thing is coming from. As far as I'm concern, there's more people in their late 20s - early 40s in the forums than there are younger people. As far as I'm aware, most people either vent directly to each other based on the words spoken, regardless of age.

JRHoch 2019-08-18 13:02:58 UTC #17

29! You are so, so, so...young.

snailienz 2019-08-18 13:11:28 UTC #18

When you are in fandoms that are full of toddlers you feel older than you are i guess. ;w;

Cavechan 2019-08-18 13:13:25 UTC #19

On the Discord thing, out of respect for others I am not going to name names or anything, but I will say I have definitely seen at least one person on a Discord that would complain a lot about the Tapas forum and say some vile things. It seems their experience was much different from my own because this forum seems pretty normal. There will always be a time where you don't agree with the actions of the mods or whatever and I encourage conversations at those times. Ask questions, send private messages. Oh and try not to be an ass when you do it because people will then take you more seriously. Just my two cents.

On the issue of trolling, @mariusthered, if you saw my posts in the comic thread as trolling, then I apologize. That was ten billion percent not my intention. I can say I have no interest in trolling, I hate people who troll, and was just making a joke.

edit: I'm also going to add on that I am sorry if you thought I was making fun of the comic because of the way you created it. Again, that was not my intention. My intention was to make fun of the character models themselves and not the effort you put into making the comic. If it came off that way, then I am very, very sorry.

JRHoch 2019-08-18 13:14:42 UTC #20

I won't even say my age!