So I still can't seem to grow my audience

raekitano 2019-03-01 11:09:04 UTC #18

I would like to say I recently started following your comic and I enjoy it.
Sorry you're feeling this way but it does happen to many people at some time.

If you're looking for more exposure have you considered SmackJeeves and I always like to look at Top Web Comic.

http://www.smackjeeves.com/webcomic-hosting.php

(free website hosting - lots of great artist have risen up through here and had a lot of success)

https://www.topwebcomics.com

(you can upload you comic details and then direct readers to vote monthly - found a ton of fantastic comics here that you'll never see on Tapas or Webtoons.)

Both of these require little effort.

Anyway, keep up the great work you're doing.

Azifri 2019-03-01 12:15:17 UTC #20

Honestly, I'd advise against rebooting. Maybe it would be better to go over your script, make changes if needed, and finish your story the best you can. Then you can move on to new projects, or even do a full new version of Mirror Monster, but you will have finished a comic and let your readers know that you can successfully finish a comic. If you reboot, after some time you will again find that you could have done things differently or better, and risk getting into a situation where you will end up leaving the project unfinished.

I know it's not the exact same situation, but there is a good discussion about the pros and cons about rebooting here. I think it may be worth reading:

gh0stcr33p 2019-03-01 18:28:35 UTC #21

I don't have the time to redo anything. I'm already struggling to keep a schedule of 2 pages a week. how do you expect me to remake the majority of the comic?

and that's the one thing I was worried I'd hear. the problem is that Mirror Monster is my main passion project. I've never thought of starting a second project that isn't related to it because it's the idea I care about the most as I've stated before. making a new project would only be for the exposure, and for something that wouldn't even matter to me. that's why I'm so distressed over this. if I started with my main project and I really do care about it, how am I supposed to make it a success?

I know you're intentions were good just like @Rhonder's but I don't think anybody realizes the actual problem that I just mentioned. I just wish I could have a little hope in being able to make my main focus a success. I can't drop something that's so meaningful to me and I want to be able to grow it without just scrapping it or starting over.

great.....

I find it discouraging how many people are telling me this. it would be a whole different story if I was just talking about a first comic that isn't heading in a particular direction or that I don't have any big goals for.

hmm, thanks for those. I might try using more of the ones you listed. update graphics are also a good idea, I'm not sure on how I'd make or use them though.

@raekitano smackjeeves was where I started out, and I left it since I preferred the episode format of tapas. but I guess I might as well try restarting on there again and maybe webtoons again as well. while I don't like either platform too much I guess it wouldn't help. I've also posted on topwebcomics but I haven't gotten many votes on there.

I don't want to sound repetitive but I already stated how I felt on this. Mirror Monster wasn't some quick first idea I carelessly pulled out of my ass just in hopes of gaining a large following. I plan for it to be a very long formatted project and all I want to know are the options for maintaining an audience so I can create the entire thing without just ditching it before even getting near the end. because that isn't gonna be for a long time. really, I'd have nothing else if I decided to stop working on it

punkarsenic 2019-03-01 18:34:19 UTC #22

i just grab a screenshot of my favourite panel in an update and paste it into a template with the logo and update graphic, export, and post!

yeah, do not redo anything. its not worth it

sometimes the truth feels bad. is this your first comic? youre like 17, right? idr. i fully believe you that youve put a lot of love and thought into mirror monster and have big plans for it - nobody is saying youre working on something you havent thought through. but working on long projects when youre early in your career is difficult because youre going to develop so much in that time - as an artist, as a writer, and as a person. youll have different values and interests in a years time, let alone three. you can make mirror monster grow with you, but in my experience from doing this myself (i started my comic at 16, im now 19, and its Very Different) it has some inevitable hurdles, and as much as i love and care for TWAW and put a tonne of work into it, i cant wait for the next thing.

gh0stcr33p 2019-03-01 18:38:48 UTC #23

well it's not my first comic idea, but it's my first comic that lasted longer than just one page. and I'm 15... not 17. but when you mention ideas and skills developing, would it really matter as long as those improvements are gradually shown in my main project instead of just making a whole new one?

GusC 2019-03-01 18:47:51 UTC #24

You’re 15?!?!

Friend you have nothing to worry about. No matter what decision you make, you have an insane amount of time to make it. You can stay the course a few more years, make smaller side projects, take a hiatus to work on other projects, revamp your main series... dude, you are young as hell. You have so much time, you don’t need to spend it worrying about something like this. Worry about career prep and college path. If you want to ride your own IP to victory, you’ll have to be in it for the looooong haul.

vothnthorvaldson 2019-03-01 18:54:20 UTC #25

I can understand the problem and the disappointment. You are in a unusual and not comfortable situation. At 15, you've worked over 1/8th of your life on this comic. It's normal it is so important to you. Where it's unusual, is that not a lot of 13 years olds start such a huge project and are still working on it 2 years later.: that's an enormous achievement, and one that will most likely be more meaningful for your future as an artist than your number of subs today March the 1st 2019.

I don't think you should change your comic solely to get more subs, but if you ever find that the way you tell your story does not fit who you are anymore, but that you don't want to abandon it either, there is still the possibility to give an end to it, consider it a first part, and go for something slightly different in term of storytelling and/or art etc. for part 2.

punkarsenic 2019-03-01 19:00:45 UTC #26

wow, youre fifteen? dude, youre doing exceptionally! i thought you were sixteen at least. so that means you were 14 when you started mirror monster?

well... lemme just explain by telling you what i did.

i started working on TWAW when i was 15, and starting producing it at 16. i hadnt really written anything like this - a long narrative project - before but i was feeling really good about this one, i cared about it deeply, i did tonnes of research, i was ready. theres still parts of those early chapters that i think are super charming. since then the art has developed and revamped over and over again as ive learnt and grown, and thats fine - no drawing is dependent on a previous drawing, if i had really awful lighting at the start i dont need to have awful lighting ever again. but the writing will always tie me down.

people who read my comic read it from the start, and im always making my first impression on what i wrote at 16. they have to slog through chapters of poorly paced and directionless work to get to the good stuff, the stuff that reflects what i can do - and want to do - now. and what i can do now is held back by what i did then as well - if i havent set something up properly last year, because i didnt understand setup and payoff then, then i cant pay it off properly now. there are plot holes i cant solve because i didnt have the foresight a year, two years ago. and this would probably happen again if i was starting twaw fresh today, its the curse of long serialised work, but id be so much more experienced that id be able to see these pitfalls coming.

theres also just a tonne of decisions in the early chapters that i hate. i read through them and im like 'oh, thats cringey, thats very edgy, i hate that characterisation' - i dont need to stick to those bits of bad worldbuilding or characterisation, but my readers will still get an impression of the world and characters from them, and when i decide im changing how it works itll confuse people. where ive developed and changed as person in what im influenced by and interested in, what i want TWAW to be has changed several times - but i cant completely overhaul it in the comic. i want completely different setups, completely different locations, completely different character designs, and those changes would require a reboot. im tied to what i set up as a kid, and while i do what i can with that, its not the same as a clean slate. its like im a goat tied to a rope; if i werent writing something i started 2.5 years ago, id be able to eat the whole cabbage patch, but with TWAW i can only eat from this lil circle of grass.

and for the record, im at peace with this and im gonna finish TWAW, i love it, i enjoy making it. but when it ends, its gonna be like the weights coming off.

like, you totally can keep working on mirror monster for the next like five years and do great work youre proud of, but when youre developing as an artist there is a distinct freedom to shorter projects where you can leave behind past mistakes and move on to new ideas rapidly. im not saying you should drop mirror monster - its a good comic, youre good at making it, you enjoy it. but will you enjoy it when youre 18?

on a totally different note, you dont wanna be super successful at fifteen. that kinda scrutinyll fuck you up. you got time dude, just focus on the work

Shanny8 2019-03-01 19:14:53 UTC #27

2 years is not really a lot of time...my comic doesnt have an epic boom, but I have a plan with my comic and I believe in the plan. I def WONT say Facebook(I'm pretty much at the point where I may be leaving Facebook because of their shitty practices in the next year), but I'd def say give Twitter another look. Screaming about my comic on social media helped mine grow- I'd also suggest putting your comic on another host site; that may increase your audience as opposed to just solely posting on Tapas.

Also promoting once a week doesnt get it done. I'm screaming about my comic at least 3-4 days a week AND on weekends. The more you promote and post about your comic, the chances of it getting looked at even more increases...

frgmnt 2019-03-01 19:37:48 UTC #28

Ok, this will be a long and probably not very coherent post, mostly just my personal opinions and observations that you may or may not find useful.
This thread made me think. A lot of your original post sounds relatable to me - I'm also working on my passion project that will not ever make it big, if its current stats are any indication. So I think I understand your situation.

What are you hoping to get from this thread (other than venting your frustration, which is totally acceptable)? Do you want encouragement? A way to make your comic magically more popular?

Popular comics on tapas are usually one of the two (and let's leave BL out of the equation here): 1) made by an already popular creator with a recognizable social media presence, 2) featured by tapas staff. In addition, these pretty much always have some elements that draws readers to them, that people are sure to respond to. Comics with a wide audience usually have, well, wide appeal.
I read up until ch5 of your comic and it looks to have a pretty niche appeal. Which I'm not saying is a bad thing. The atmosphere and art are unique, but I also don't feel personally very hooked by the story - but this my opinion only, so, you know.

I agree with others you're doing really well for your age, though. I wish my art was that good when I was 15 :'D (Tbh I'm a bit envious - because I feel like I'm growing past the age where works at my skill level are "acceptable" - most artists my age are either already pros, or only just picked up drawing. Neither of which is me. I might be stuck working on my unpopular magnum opus until I'm in my thirties.)

It's true that first and foremost you should tell your story for yourself. But I know telling it when there isn't much of an audience to listen can be disheartening. I wish I could give better advice here, but I only have this cliche thing to say: you should ask yourself, why do you want to tell your story? Why this one, and why can it be only you? And then try to focus on the answer you arrive at.

Rhonder 2019-03-01 20:08:21 UTC #29

I fully understand where you're coming from. @punkarsenic already said it better than I probably could, but in short- It's not so much that you have to pull another comic idea out of thin air right this instant (after all, MM is what you're passionate about currently! :D) BUT in all likelihood someday you might discover another project that you're just as passionate about, and if/when you do, boy will that project kick ass because it'll be inheriting everything that MM will end up being at the end and more.

Expanding on my past experiences,

My comic history, skip if you want

the first story I was ever serious about and worked on a lot I came up with in... 7th grade I think. I never got far with the actual comic pages, but I worked on the series hard core all the way through highschool.

Wrote out like 10 chapters of the story in novel form, designed like 50 characters, used the world and characters as the basis for creative writing class prompts, created an online role play or two using the world and characters, thought up hundreds of story arcs and plotlines in my spare time, started thinking about a sequel series with a time skip and new MC, and rebooted the thing probably once a year or more (I only ever got as far as ch 2 in comic form xD). I literally have like 10 versions of the first 5 pages sitting in my old drawings drawer.

Took a break through college but continued drawing the characters every so often. Upon graduation I decided I wanted to get back into comics and started 2 more reboots of the same series 1 year apart (one in late 2016, one in late 2017). It was at that point that I realized that a lot of the things that I came up with 12 years ago were holding the story back, and that it would take more time and editing than I was willing to put in at this point to get it up to snuff. So I made the hard decision to let it go and start fresh. It'd be a lie to say that that project isn't still a passion project of mine- I worked on it for nearly 12/24 of my years, after all xD But I came to the realization that that project in its current state wasn't going to meet my goals as a comic artist at this point in time.

So... I guess that's where some of the conflicting advice in this thread is coming from. The advice like "reboot" or "try something else" are appealing to the "I want to try and grow my audience right away" part of the topic, and the "keep working if it's what you're passionate about" and "you're still young, don't sweat it!" pieces of advice are looking at the big picture of your art career, but won't necessarily help grow your audience right away. It's similar to a "you can't have your cake, and eat it too" scenario.

Personally I like @Azifri's advice best: if I were you, I'd charge ahead with MM and just keep working to make it the best it can be, and grow your audience as best as possible along the way. That's not to say you should try to rush to the ending or anything, but someday when it's done, take the lessons you learned along the way and apply them to an even more awesome project~

Unfortunately main project or not, the advice here is just the same as any other fledgling independent webcomic: continue trying to make it the best it can be, and advertise the heck out of it. Others have already gone over this, but put it on a bunch of platforms and diligently plaster it all over social media in hopes of gaining more views/subs. Perhaps try cross promo like @beta1042 suggested, etc. This is also where I'm still learning how to do better as well, so I can't do much beyond parrot other's advice sadly

punkarsenic 2019-03-01 20:11:20 UTC #30

seconded

joannekwan 2019-03-01 20:34:05 UTC #31

Dude, you're only 15! You've already accomplished A LOT for your age! Be proud of that!
I say charge on with MM at your preferred pace until either it ends, or you fall out of love with it.

Don't worry about growing an audience too much now. You're still developing your skills and worldly knowledge. Right now it's not a life or death situation with your comic in that you don't need to build an audience to make money and support yourself from it. So relax! Sure try promoting more on social media and maybe polish up some pages if it won't take you too much time, but just treat your passion project like a friend. It's there for you, to entertain you, to let you express yourself! It's not there to be a cash cow.

TimCaloweh 2019-03-01 21:39:00 UTC #32

Well choose, entertain the subs you got and hope new readers will overlook the early inconsistencies, or fix what you got and hook new readers. You got the pieces so it shouldn't take too long, but you gotta understand, not so good story=not so many readers.

beta1042 2019-03-01 21:58:51 UTC #33

You could maybe modify some things in your beginning eps without doing a full on reboot. I think the art is fine enough- and a lot of readers like to see art improvements over time, but you could do some simple and less time consuming fixes like, tweeking dialogue, adjusting the panel placements to adjust the flow and readability.

I hate my beginning stuff soooo much, but I went back and adjusted speech balloons, grammar, those little things and even that little bit of fix made the beginning a lot better for the time I invested in it (IMO anyway). I do sometimes debate putting a disclaimer before my first ep explaining that my comic is proof of creator growth and that there will be inconsistencies in the begining eps... but I never know if that is a good move or not. If I end up doing it, I'll let you know how it works out.

BobbyjoeX 2019-03-01 22:17:11 UTC #34

i had a first "practice" series i was going to do before jumping into my passion project. but then my dumbass started the passion project first, i kinda regret doing that cause now i screwed up the beginning of the one that mattered to me

so... im in the same boat

ble 2019-03-01 22:55:03 UTC #35

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

gh0stcr33p 2019-03-02 00:34:23 UTC #36

that's a very good idea, but I don't format my pages in a way where I can edit much after they're done. I also used to have a disclaimer at the beginning of my first episode but then I've been told that it wasn't necessary by several readers..

Cavechan 2019-03-02 03:08:52 UTC #37

Finally someone says this. I was surprised by the amount of people saying 1-2 years is a long time. 1-2 years is nothing. It goes by in the blink of an eye. Of course, that means that every year is valuable and should be treated as such.

But the perspective tends to be a bit different when you're in your 30s. ._. Use time wisely. Really.

As far as growing your audience more, I don't have any advice to really add on to it. I'm in the same boat......

Daknight 2019-03-02 03:18:07 UTC #38

I am in the same boat (or even a smaller boat actually xP) I do this for love, but at the same time ones does wish more people would read what takes hours to make. I am already on a reboot at this points, probably willl work on resizing panels and some text for better reading for new readers...but outside of that I am not sure how one goes in building and audience outside of building ones name and reputation over time.

Like Kazsup mentions, sometimes it might be better to move to another project.