Something about "Romance Webcomics"

[liann]

I love romance.. I love slowburn I love them together.

This may sound like I'm complaining, but not really. I mean if it makes you happy, you do you... I guess it's just criticism.

But one thing I notice about even popular and featured comics (not dropping names) is that.... how are you like 50 episodes in and the most romantic thing your characters have done is stare at each other for 5 panels?

This just bugs me so much.. I mean, sometimes I continue reading because I like the characters, but .. nothing happens!

By 50 episodes, I mean 50+ episodes of full interaction with 30 to 100 panels.

sure there are things like "oh my gosh i think i like her" or "oh my i might be in love"

but then it drags on for another 20 episodes with them not even coming to terms with said feelings until eventually the author takes a 10 year hiatus.

it's kinda like... signing up for a fantasy story but then instead of seeing characters that have goals and a story that's going somewhere, you just watch them eat Lembas bread and shop for bows and arrows everyday.

[joannekwan]

I think that's one thing about East Asian-based storytelling, especially considering the cultural context of romance in those areas. It's pretty damned conservative.

[Kelheor]

It sounds like you've never read manga really =) It's East Asia, they won't say "I love you" withing 10 chapters, even more than that, they may say it in the very end.
Especially since it's a featured comic, it's bread and butter for authors. They may spread this slow burn very thin, because they are payed for the comic, so they may want it to continue for a very long time.
It really depends on how the author does this, I think, whether they are good in what they are doing. If it's only "2 characters in romance" and nothing else going on, it may become annoying quicker.
I recently started "I love Yoo" and consider it a pretty nice slow burn? It's more than 90 episodes now and barely anything (basically zero) "lovey dovey" happened

[liann]

it's annoying when you have fully functioning adults as characters acting like they're in highschool wondering "do i confess or do i not?"

I think the best example I can give is Netjuu no susume and Wotakoi. It's kind of a realistic take on adults falling in love with none of the overly saturated dense characters.Things don't get dragged on by childish problems. Instead you get people that have actual insecurities and talk about their problems with their significant other/friends.

I admit I'm a sucker for cliche romance... but it's just really difficult to follow a webcomics when it starts feeling like... yeah the author is milking this.

[joannekwan]

Ahahaha, this is why I don't read many romance comics, of any sort of pairing.
And also why I write my own at the pace I choose.

[liann]

oh nah, I've read a lot of romance manga. like I said, I love romance.

One of my favourites is Kimi Ni Todoke. The relationship between them was reaaally slow.But before things became official between the main characters, they made efforts to show their appreciation towards each other. They developed their relationship. There are so many hints that they like each other and it was obvious that they were going to start dating, you might as well start a revolution if they dont.. So you know what to look forward to. I think one great thing about it too was they actually developed Kazehaya as a character. So he's not just the male lead that's attractive and we're meant to fall in love with. He's the school prince but he's actually got a really shy side. Which made the slowburn all the more believable.

[yansusu]

Actually, I really like if the creator takes their time with things. What bugs me much more are the kind of stories (not just comics but also novels) where the leads somehow get together by chapter 2 without any real development because ... they're hot, I guess?

[liann]

I think they are both annoying in their own ways. Taking time shouldn't result to a story with no progression. I love it when it's slow but you feel a sense that the story is actually going somewhere.

Too fast is... just... no thanks.

[yansusu]

Yep, stories that manage to strike that golden middle are the best but I guess that's hard to do. Tbh I like stories that don't revolve only around the romance more anyway so slow paced stories have it a little bit easier to get away with taking their sweet time in regards to relationships

[liann]

yeah I agree! You can definitely get away with slow burn romance if your characters have something important going on for them. Like life goals. Maybe they wanna be a successful artist or something. Then the readers have something to follow... instead of like 50 episodes of "will they or won't they?"

oh my gosh and I wish they'd stop using the annoying ex trope. lol. I feel so bad for the character whose only role is to be an annoying bitchy girl

[yansusu]

Especially if they only show up after the leads have finally gotten closer. I don't mind them as much if they've been around for a while but I guess then they'd have some other role anyway

[Kann]

Having 200+ pages in traditional format up with romance plot where characters still didn't get together, I gotta say "sorry".

Well, I love slow burn and I'm not really fan of the romance stories where characters hook up instantly. I guess you gotta find the good balance. xD

[liann]

hey, like I said, you do you. As long as your story is progressing, there's really nothing wrong with slowing down the romance. I was talking about stories that really aren't going anywhere because the characters don't have goals so it's hard to follow. This isn't even exclusive to romance comics. But it's common there and they end up falling to the toxic cliche cycle of jealousy, and rivals, and love triangles that don't make sense.

(also, just to clear things up to people, I never said I liked fast paced where they hook up on the first episode)

[AllynCrowe]

Hey guys, I normally don't do this, but reading this conversation you might really enjoy my novel. It has all the things you are talking about, including a well paced relationship and character development.
I wrote it specifically to counter BL tropes like flat characters, relationships that go nowhere, and gay stereotypes. So if you're interested PM me and I will link you!

[AllynCrowe]

Also, what's even worse than the ridiculously slow burn, is the 'maybe i will maybe I won't' thing. That bothers me to no end.

[Kann]

Yeah, resorting to toxic cycles just to keep the story going is a bad idea. We get enough stuff like that in soap operas. xD

[nostalgicroxas]

This makes me wonder if we're having a conversation about "love in a story" or "a story based on love". Look at "Tuck Everlasting" vs "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" - one of these things is not like the other coughcough

TE is clearly a story that centralizes around love, life and heartache.
TLTW&TW is first and foremost a story of discovery - discovery of self, of world, of faith (because that's a topic we're stuck with always).

Both involve love in very different ways but I think they can fall into two bunches if we're looking at "Is it a Romance Genre or not?" TE is. TLTW&TW is not.

The distinction between "what it is" is actually why I don't really go hardcore into "Romance" genre as a whole. It's got lots of tropes that just pad the runtime instead of adding to the plot. Now, I wouldn't normally say this, but consider the super mega popular novel Twilight (forget the sequels): It is a story that dances the line between the two novels I listed above, it's both a story about love and life, and a story about discovery. Which is it more? Sequels would say it's "love and life" and toss the book into the "romance bin", and we can go home. Ignoring the sequels however makes it harder to place. (I haven't read the book.) But it's figuring out the lines drawn between "genre" and "categories" and "story" that make this a hard conversation.
I recall a panel about "love in anime and manga that's not hentai/yaoi/yuri" and two stories popped up - Sword Art Online (because it was current) and Fruits Basket. If you look at just the anime for these both (so no manga 'truth' and not light novel 'what author meant' BS floating around) and you get a similar comparison of TE vs TLTW&TW. Furaba is the story of love and life, while SAO is the story of discovery.

The only real stories I engross myself in that are anywhere near the "romance bin" are ones that involve psychology. coughs more "Ten Count" is a manga (yaoi) not for kiddies, but it's heavily steeped in psychology. Gravitation is a BL (not yaoi) that's largely not steeped in psychology, but instead argues "life and love" as the forefront. I studied a lot of character development, story crap, and psychology in college and one thing that was fun was taking Aristotle's views of love from Nicomachean Ethics and applying it to stuff I'm either stuck reading, or choose to read. Gravitation, like the anime FREE!, can become a treat of psychological candy if you allow it to. Don't understand why Kyou (Fruits Basket) is as angry and stoic as he is? Apply psychology, especially as you get a glimpse of his childhood. Don't understand why Shuichi is so driven and excited about life while his boyfriend is extremely negative and terrified? Look at how they grew up and their friends and family.

...Anyway I realize this has gotten to be a long post. IM SORRYYYYYYYY. I just noticed the conversation was veering toward "romance in a story" vs "romance is the story".
[For the record, romance is second-fiddle to pretty much all of my stories, so slow burns there shall be because other shit is happening. Can't fall in love when you're worried about your parents gone missing!]

[liann]

I'm pertaining to stories that revolve around the romance yeah.

Because, most of the time if your comics have bigger issues like... fighting dragons or aiming to go to a good university, it can open up to good exterior conflicts between the main characters. Ya know, conflicts that are outside their control. Like "oh no you've sworn to hunt down dragons to protect your people ... but I have the dragon's blood in me and humans killed many of us... but we are starting to realise that not all dragons are bad and not all humans are greedy pigs and maybe i kind of like you now..." or like... "i wanna go to art school but my parents dont want to. but you support me as a friend and now we are developing feelings for each other and it's really cute. and i'm working really hard to make my parents realise that art is for me."

But usually when it centers around the romance, introduction of bitchy exes and rivals... it just gets tiring. It's also one of my problems with Ao Haru... I liked the dynamic between the main characters. I liked Kou as a character until he fell down the "i gotta take care of this rival girl cuz I relate to her (or shes my childhood friend)" cliche. But there was a sense of progression. Things were moving forward.

Which brings me to my original point. Sure they liked each other since they were kids. But they really didn't become official until the end. Ao Haru has like 50 chapters and a whole story happened. So, personally, it just feels boring when a romance centered webcomic or manga is 60 or 70 chapters in and like... nothing happens except miscommunication or "i like you but feelings are bad because I'm so broken and misunderstood"

[Cavechan]

I think part of the problem is that the end goal isn't really the relationship but just them getting together. Like the authors don't know how to make an interesting relationship after the couple starts dating. Or if they do finally get together, the only thing they can think to do is throw in a third wheel to create a love triangle. I'm not a fan of them. >_>

[liann]

I think because people rarely want to see the reality of relationships.They just love the thrill of the chase.