Storytelling - Red Herrings or Hints?

Ambat 2016-12-02 18:27:41 UTC #21

I think it really depends on your genre... Are we specifically talking about mystery genre stories or are we just speaking in general?

In mystery genre stories, I think red herrings are an almost absolute necessary feature. There are only so many hints you can drop leading to the real truth before people starting putting 2 and 2 together, and throwing in some red herrings can prolong the "life" of the mystery in your story to help guide you through the rest of the story arcs you may be able to complete.

Another technique (which can be employed in any genre of story, imo) is to have a hint that is directly related to your core mystery, but have it be so outlandish or so far ahead of what the readers' currently know that they don't quite understand how that information benefits them until much later. I particularly LOVE when a mystery story gives me information that I initially think is just bizarre or maybe even just pointless information, and then something else is revealed much later and I think back to that information from before and I'm like "Oh my goodness!! This all makes sense now!!!"

The only thing I can think of that makes the ending of a "mystery" feel cheap is an unprecedented Deus ex Machina (either from the protagonist or antagonist) . I've read too many mysteries where a character that was never once introduced or even hinted at ended up being "the mastermind" and that's always extremely disappointing. Another way people tend to go is having a character who was presumed to be dead, and even shown as dead within the context of the story, end up being the "mastermind"--this isn't ALWAYS a bad scenario, I can think of a few games that handled it well, but generally it feels like a cheap cop out due to lack of substantial backing information prior to the reveal and lack of logic leading to this scenario.

I think in other genres of story, red herrings may not be as necessary--I think they would serve the same purpose though, which would be to prolong the life span of the comic. If not a red herring, it could be a wrong turn, or a failed fight that sets them back a few pegs, etc.

Maxiachan 2016-12-02 19:01:19 UTC #22

I think this is why you never take characters and what they say at face value.
As a storyteller/theorist, this is where things like background details become important.
Like for example, the lore of a series could be use to form a theory.
You see it all the time with shows like Steven Universe.
Just watch/read a few of them to see what I'm talking about.
I personally don't mind red herrings or foreshadowing as it done right.
As long as the reveal doesn't feel like a "Big Lipped Aligator" moment.

jurinova 2016-12-03 10:23:37 UTC #23

I think both are good when well-used and in the right balance. Too many hints and there is no mystery. Too many red herrings and the reader might feel confused and tricked. In my opinion Neil Gaiman's American Gods did really well with the hints and red herrings. The clues are all there but they don't make sense until the right moment.

Personally I love dropping a lot of small hints into the story, especially visual ones. I take time to build my story on visual details, like body language and facial expressions. Most of them are so small that readers may not pick up on them (like dilated pupils for example) but I've been happy to notice that several readers do in fact pay attention to the background stuff and the details. I really am not a fan of shocking the readers with plot twists, so I want to make sure all moments are well foreshadowed. If the revelation makes the reader confused, then I think I've failed with my hints.

Red herrings don't really have a place in my story but I do present information from several sources, so the truth is always coloured by the views of the person sharing it. I also have unreliable characters, so everything they say cannot really be taken at face value. I leave it up to the readers to form their own opinion on what is true and what is a lie. In real life people remember things differently or have opposing opinion, so it makes sense that in fiction that happens as well. It's not really intentional false information or a red herring but rather a matter of point of view.

revisionstudios 2016-12-03 16:28:47 UTC #24

I see a lot of people talking about how they use characters to outright lie, but I've got to disagree with that. I think more often than not, that causes confusion, especially if it's a character that the audience is set up to trust. Generally speaking, the audience WILL take an explanations at face value, even with villains.

If you want to throw in a red herring via character, I think it's best that the character is genuine in their thought process, and that you either show the process (making sure it's a logical path) or show that they are unsure/admit they don't have a concrete answer.

You CAN have a character that flat out tells lies, but then hints should be made that they're not being truthful. Whether it's how they phrase it, how they keep it vague, or the audience/another character can see manipulative behavior. You don't have to be blatant about it, just enough for the audience to question their motives.

I do agree though that the red herring should ultimately set them on the path to discovering the truth. Makes it more satisfying.

shazzbaa 2016-12-03 17:32:37 UTC #25

The way I try to set stuff up is to build on it, in a way? Because different people will "get it" at different times. So like, having subtle stuff early on -- things that readers could miss or not understand, and that you're kind of expecting them to not put together as important. And then later you reinforce that with things that are more obvious (but which many people will still miss) -- if you do a couple of these, some more people will put it together once it's come up a few times. When it's finally stated outright, for the people who were following, it's confirmation -- "Ha, I knew it!" For the people who didn't keep up with the hints, stating it outright becomes a kind of sherlock holmes "and that's how I figured it out" moment. It's satisfying for everyone.

Basically, subtle hints are great because a few will notice, but you have to build it into the story in such a way that it's okay if they're not noticed. Then the next time it comes up, some people will be like "omg I know what this is about because I figured out that hint before!" and feel smart, other people will be like "wait, this was mentioned before, hang on, are these connected??" and start to get it. And that kind of reinforcement is good for the long pacing of webcomics, too.

As a reader, I tend to be the person who doesn't get stuff until it's outright explained.... because that's how I enjoy stories. I like saving all the clues, waiting to see how they connect, and then being excited when they all come together, rather than working it out ahead of time myself. So I don't think it's bad for some readers to be waiting for it all to come together, as long as your story allows for that!

Personally, I'm thinking more in general. A lot the advice here is kind of talking about like... UNCOVERING A MYSTERY or HIDING A SECRET and while I think that's a valuable part of that conversation! that's not quite what I've been pondering. Like....not a big mystery, just a question that's slowly being unraveled by the plot, like "what does the magic ring do?"

If they're going to see the wizard to learn what the magical ring does, and along the way it does something weird, Character B asks "what happened?" and Character A says "maybe the ring is powering up because I'm wearing it?" and then they make it to the wizard 5 chapters later and the wizard says "ah, yes, it turns out this ring is powering up, since you were wearing it" it seems to me like that would feel kinda lame?? like "yeah okay we got that already thanks." But if Character A says "oh no, is the ring breaking??" and you spend the next 5 chapters trying to keep the ring from breaking, then the wizard is like "lol no it's just powering up" that would also be lame???

So that's kinda what I've been thinking about -- not so much "how do you reveal information" but more "when the character eventually does weigh in, how do you handle it?" or "how do you handle letting a character guess correctly without making the question irrelevant?" or "how do you handle letting a character guess incorrectly without confusing audiences or making the answer unsatisfying?" That sort of thing.