Sudden lapse in confidence (alt title: anatomy. fuck.)

[punkarsenic]

today, i wont for an interview for an art foundation course, and when i got out my digital work, the first thing the teacher said was "you need to re-learn form." this is true; i focus too much on learning from drawn styles and never had any formal teaching on how to draw people. it bothers me, and im glad he brought that up before i did. but it made me think... how obvious is it? that my anatomy's lacking? does it bother people?

so, heres some examples i showed him. if people could point out places he could be referring to, and ways to improve them (criticism and useful resources) that would be awesome.

[AlkseeyaKC]

I don't think it is hurting your art because it is stylized. Though the women with the skateboard, it's apparent. I do feel like if you took the time to learn anatomy, it would greatly improve your style. Not saying it is bad now, I think it looks nice. But if you worked on anatomy it would make your art a lot better. =3

Honestly learning anatomy is good for any and all artists drawing people. =3

[LuuPetitek]

Well, you have rather a comic style, so it's not the same as with realistic style In comic styles proportions are always different eg. too big heads, small hands and feet. But if you're asking for pointing out places where the lack of anatomy could bother:

1. First picture, her legs, they have different length. Her left leg looks like she has a knee really close to her hip. Maybe you wanted to make a foreshortening, but it doesn't look like that.
2. Second one is cool! You could say that this guy has too long neck, but as I said, you have a comic style, and it looks totally fine in this form!.
3. That boy has too long torso and the arm but too short legs and small feet.
4. Too long arms
5. One arm longer then the other
6. Looks fine for me

Those are the mistakes that I can see that could make your teacher say you need more lessons about anatomy. Hope that it will help you. However, I have to say that you have a really nice style and I love the colors that you're using! You really know how to match them :)Don't give up and you will be a master! Good luck with your lessons

[punkarsenic]

i mean. i have learned anatomy. and studied anatomy. and taken a lot of time. obviously. i still do. idk where to go from here to work on anatomy is the thing.

like, what looks wrong with the skateboarding girl?

is my flawed anatomy obvious?

[punkarsenic]

thank you! i was aware of some of this, i think, but not others.

how would i go about improving my understanding of anatomy, though?

(also, petty note, theyre girls not boys)

[AlkseeyaKC]

I'll point some things out that LuuPetitek miss that I see.

3ed picture, they guy's arms are too long, if he would to drop the down, they would be to his knees.
Second picture, the person leaning back, his torso is too long.
For the skateboard, It might be best if I red lined it for you. If I have permission. =3
Necks are too skinny, but everyone does this, so it's nothing to worry about. XD

[punkarsenic]

sure, red line it.

is it obvious, generally? is it something people notice, the second they look at my work?

[LuuPetitek]

Ah! Ok, sorry for that mistakes x') About improving, you have to study more human body. You can watch tutorials, draw from photo references or real models or just watch those photos to see the proportions. I can recommand you that YT channel: Proko. He explains everything really good. Of course there are plenty of that things everywhere in the Internet. I think the best way is to look close at every part of the body and then combine your knowledge. Eg. first day you will study hands, next feet etc.

[punkarsenic]

ty for the youtube channel!

i kinda already do the rest, although not enough. it gets really frustrating n i quit when i know i should keep at it

[AJRuby]

I think your style is great, but if your goal is to improve anatomy, then the proportions in some of the drawings could be improved (other people pointed out the length of arms, torso, etc.)

The skateboard girl looks ok... for me, the main mistake I see is that her left leg looks like it's on the same level as the right one, when it should be a bit further from the viewer (a bit behind the right leg).

If you've already studied anatomy a bit, what helped me a lot to improve is to observe people wherever I go, and watching people in movement (dance classes are great for this, haha). You could try noticing the relation of the limbs and joints to each other, for example.

Another thing that helps I think is to understand perspective very well, since when you start making more difficult poses, you need to understand how the position of the limbs will affect how it is perceived by the viewer (I hope that makes sense).

[heterodont]

its fine and starting to err on the "anatomy is off but its also heavily stylized so its passing" for me. its not super glaring if it helps. you do have a problem of making torsos too long and the legs getting short as a result and not using clothing folds to indicate the form underneath.

the human body has proportion of about 7 heads, but it often depends on the person. stuff like life drawing classes (or even just drawing from life) can help you pinpoint the approximate height/length? of a person
it helps to think of the human body as boxes at first rather than cylindrical, even though the forms themselves are round starting off with boxes can help with perspective as well as getting a '3d' look.

i hope you don't mind redlines. mainly the ones that stand out anatomy wise are the full body ones.

the aforementioned skater - one of her legs is too low compared to the other and theyre too short as well.

person getting frenchdipped has too long of a torso as was mentioned. also their clothes dont show the form underneath which flattens them out.

again with the dress, use folds to show the form underneath. as of right now it looks like where her dress ends is where her legs start. just a simple line can indicate her legs start under the dress

drawing the human body takes a lot of practice to get right. so dont get worried that its taking forever to understand/get down.

[punkarsenic]

thanks, this was really helpful advice. and no, i dont mind red lines - its great to visualise what you mean.

[Kayke]

Hey there, I just did some redlines for you too (in black though lol)

I have a highly stylized way of drawing too so I get that it can be a struggle to find a balance between style and accuracy, but it's always helped me to do armature under sketches to see how everything is connected together.

I'm not a BIG believer in reference photos. I think they're good for practice, but when you're working on comics it's a pain to get them and sometimes copying from a photo can actually make a pose look worse. You mind wants to idealize poses and make them look good, so to some extent you should just let it go. What I've found works for me is actually getting up and doing the pose you're drawing. See where your arms are, whats touching what, how are your feet angled, that sort of thing.

The first year/two years of art school are there to teach you the basics so they're going to focus on rules and the teachers can be kind of a downer. After that you can mess around and break the rules so long as you make it look good. Like I have not drawn a single perspective line in years and literally no one has called me on it since I was a freshman in college (aka a LONG time ago).

[joannekwan]

Here are the few that stuck out to me. Hope you don't mind my opinions!

For this I included a little sketch if her legs were foreshortened; you'd have to show the curves on the skirt to really imply it.

I actually think the skateboarding girl is quite competent. Rough, but you're on the right track! Aside from the weird lump on the side of her right thigh along the shorts and the wonky right foot, it's pretty good!

[punkarsenic]

wow, proper jarring hearing their names. (the bottom one is a cath a few years younger, was 'who is that' irt that particular drawing looking too different or the whole page? )

this is really helpful criticism, i really see what people mean abt the torso now. the skateboarder was drawn from a reference focusing on anatomy, so im glad it seemed competent.

could you elaborate on the staying consistent comment?

[Ambat]

Most art styles outside of semi-realism and realism do not adhere strictly to human anatomical rules. This includes anime, western animation, comic art, etc. Take a look at your big inspirations artistically and pay attention to what they're doing--as long as you're aware of general proportions and how to balance proportions in a way that look intentional and functional, you shouldn't be worried about whether things are anatomically exact or not, again, especially if you are going for a more cartoony style. All this is going to do is limit your exploration of body types and shape language.

To be honest, the only piece you've posted that looks really wonky with the "anatomy" is the picture of the two characters dancing--primarily the character in the front (his torso is much too long and his head doesn't appear to be the right proportion for his body.) Other than that I don't see any other major glaring issues--but the stiffness and lack of attention to gesture is a strong theme in all of your work and it's really hurting your style, especially considering what looks to be your intention.

You should really be focusing a LOT more on gesture. I mean this with absolutely no disrespect whatsoever, but your art is incredibly stiff, and to me this is hurting your art a lot more than your "anatomy." The picture of the girl with the skateboard is actually pretty strong anatomically, but it feels flat, amateurish and unprofessional due to the lack of attention to the gesture.

Here is a very quick redline sketch over the skateboard drawing you did:

Now I mean, the proportions in my redline are definitely off in some places--I'm pretty sure that the back leg is not correct and I think the torso to leg proportions may be off (if anyone wants to jump in with another redline please do!) but I hope I could show you an example of how gesture can take your art to the next level and make it feel much more alive, despite the anatomy not being 100% realistic or accurate. The blue line in the center of the drawing is the "line of action"--this should be the starting place in every character drawing you do. The body of the character will follow this line of action and make their poses feel more intentional and alive. Arms, hair, clothing, etc--can all have their own lines of action as well, so don't feel constrained to just the main LOA.

Volume is another thing that seems to be an issue in your art, but that's a hard thing to give advice on because I'll be honest, it's something I've struggled with my entire artistic life and only recently have I started to get semi-better at it. Try to think logically about how the shapes of the body will contort within the line of action--the torso and hips don't always need to be facing the same direction, consider adding elements in perspective (especially shoes), pay attention to facial structure because this also adds a lot of volume to your art as well.

Your best bet to start improving not only in gesture, but even in anatomy and volume, is gesture drawing. Here are some resources to help you get started:

Proko's Gesture Drawing video series
Line of Action online gesture drawing tool (they also have face and hand gesture drawing options, USE THEM, DO THEM DAILY, they saved my life)
Quickposes online gesture drawing tool
Croquis Cafe, video gesture drawing models

These are just the resources I used when I started gesture drawing and I'm sure there are a lot more out there that will help you a lot! Please don't feel discouraged. Your art has a very nice flavor to it that makes me nostalgic--it reminds me of childrens books but I can't place my name on which ones... Even if you are going for a less cartoony or rounded style, or even a semi-realistic style, having a strong foundation in gesture and volume will really help you succeed as an artist. Good luck, sorry for the wall of text and if you have any questions please don't be afraid to ask!

[punkarsenic]

im actually looking at proko's gesture drawing videos right this second.

gesture is something i only recently came to know about, so im still struggling with it. this is definitely a problem im aware of, so im really grateful for the feedback.

could you elaborate on what you mean by volume? im not sure i follow

[joannekwan]

Ah okay! My "who dat" comment was more of a joke than anything! haha. But I can totally see that as Cath younger!

As far a staying consistent with stylization, the main part is to make sure everything is still proportionate to one another, even if those proportions are exaggerated. This is especially true with parts of the head that don't move or change, namely how far apart eyes are from each other, the size of the forehead, the length of the nose, and width of the neck.
Here's an example of one of my really old cartooning styles. The top left image is how he is normally. To the immediate right, I set his eyes farther apart, shortened his nose, and widened his neck, and now it just looks like a bad drawing of him or another person entirely. The bottom images show how even with different expressions, the distances between features (eyes, nose, hairline, etc) is more or less equal to his resting expression.

You can definitely change the placement of some things for comedic effect for sure, but the character has to have a natural resting position when the expressions are done and there is no action. And this resting position is what needs to stay consistent.

[Ambat]

Proko's videos are AMAZING!!! They were SUCH a great tool for me when I was first starting with gesture. He takes things at a very comfortable pace and explains the concept in a very easy to follow way. If you have the spare cash, investing in his entire video series is crazy beneficial--he has so many useful videos on so many different topics. He's a great dude and I'm grateful for the work he's doing for us younger artists!

Trust me, I STILL struggle with gesture and I've been doing it for like 5 yrs now HAHA As long as you keep practicing you're gonna get it!

Volume as in having your characters feel like they are three dimensional--sorry if I was unclear! In the art you've posted currently, your characters feel very flat, as in they don't exist in a 3D plane. This might sound a little contradictory seeing as they are in fact a 2D drawing, but a lot of the appeal in art is making it appear as if it could exist in our world as a voluminous form. Here is another redline--this is actually my favorite drawing that you have posted! I like this character a lot.

For me, the trickiest thing as an artist is managing form and gesture at the same time. If you adhere too strictly to your form drawing, you will lose a lot of the gesture, but if you rely too heavily on the gesture, you'll lose a lot of form. It takes a lot of practice to be able to manage both IMO, I still struggle with it a lot myself and a lot of my art ends up a lot flatter than I want it to be. Being able to hone in on this and gesture, you will have a very strong artistic skillset that will take you very far!

Here are some resources on volume:

Animator's Island Form and Volume
The Foreshortening Coil Method

I'm sorry I don't have as many resources for volume--try studying more basic forms, like cylinders, cubes, etc.--this will help a lot more than you think!

If you have any more questions, please do not be afraid to ask.

[punkarsenic]

thank you, this is really helpful!