Tangled vs Frozen! Which is better storytelling?

[NickRowler]

I think Tangled win when it comes to storytelling. I think it get generally flows better. Also the fact that Tangled was a bit in a production hell for a bit and the animation had to be reworked several time. I think they were able to take the time to develop it to work well.

Frozen story however is a bit sloppy. I think it became more popular because the songs were catchier and Olaf is more iconic than the sidekicks in Tangled. Similarly, the story was rewritten several times with the final one being written around the song "Let it Go".

My personal fixes in Frozen...
-I really wish Elsa running away happened after her parent's died and have the story of her living in the mountains for several years. Instead of the freezing being instant, it is instead something that happens over several years. And when Anna leaves to investigate, she is shocked that it is her sister that she hasn't seen for years.

-Don't make Hans a surprise villain. I think Hans would have been far more interesting if he was someone who thought his bias against Elsa was for the greater good. He doesn't care about being the ruler, he just wants to protect everyone. I think Anna and Hans falling out should have been on them disagreeing on how to handle Elsa. Hans would make Anna seem like the bad guy because her plan could end up hurting many people. And when Hans tries to do things his way, it eventually leads to him dying. Anna is seen as the hero in the end because she choose compassion over fear.

[nostalgicroxas]

I agree.

That does remind me that the actual retellings and fables regarding The Snow Queen do involve a more developed story. The movie I watched as a kid doesn't have a straight up love story (they gunna get married) but instead was a sister saving her brother from the Snow Queen (namely the mirror killing him iirc). The "creation" notes of Frozen does tell about how they were trying to reimagine those elements of the story (ie Elsa's gloves) but I think a lot of stuff got chopped, like you said, when they struggled to rework things.

One of the scenes in Frozen that stands out to me the most as out of place is the scene when Hans is about to stab Elsa in the back or behead her? I dunno. His pose is so weird in that scene. Like as a practiced swordsman as he should be, wouldn't lift the sword high above his head like that to just stab her through the center, or to behead her. The entire swing of his arm is off.

[MegaRay]

Tangled story is better than Frozen 1 (I didn't watch Frozen 2.) The setups, the payoffs. All done better in Tangled. Frozen's issue was not knowing who's the villain is until probably the last minute, have they ditched Hans betrayal subplot and focus on making moral dilemma with Elsa's action and her taking responsibilities and such, it would have been a better story.

[LostSpirit]

LOL. That's all I can add to this.

[IndigoShirtProd]

Never really liked Frozen. I saw the movie once in 2014, and the only interesting thing about it was the twist end where Anna saved herself. I'm biased towards Tangled because it's one of my two favorite Disney movies. It's mainly because of the characters dynamics and the fact there's not one song I really dislike, yes, even the bar scene song. Everything the the story is more focused than in Frozen. I do have to agree that since the movie lacked a main character, it was a slog to get through. I think if they focused on Elsa and not Anna it would've been a more impactful tale. Like the story begins after the land is frozen, and we find out about the sisters through flashback. Frozen is just not goal oriented like Tangled or Moana, and it only has on remarkable song.

[Iris-Grimoire]

Frozen 2 suffers just as heavily from rewrite saturation. Here's the five elements! Water, Earth,Fire, Wind and....Ice. Ice is totally the quintessence guys. It's not the aether or the lifestream or another character we totally didn't transplant Elsa into once we couldn't find a way to make her character work with this plot.

As someone with Ice and Water separate in my works' element charts, it's because it's the manipulation of cooling and the debunked concept of caloric theory turned into a magic thing. It's not the do-everything power.

edit: also, it started the problem that reared its head in the new star wars with information starvation. Did you know Hans was abused when he was younger and this is why he can't see the good in anyone else? No? Well I hope you read the book to get this essential character justification, even though it should've been in the movie.

[DiegoPalacios]

I consider Tangled better than Frozen when it comes to storytelling and character dynamics.

Rapunzel and Ridel`s interactions are way too entertaining and heartwarming, and their arcs are pretty solid. Also, Goethel works perfectly as the antagonist keeping the stakes personal and meaningful.

Frozen gave me the sensation that they changed their mind about many things in the middle of writing. Hans`s actions dont make too much sense after the twist is revealed. While it can be expected for him to acts nice and pretend to care to keep appearances, he wasted a solid chance at killing Elsa without anyone knowing it was him.

[indagold]

Tangled felt like it was more cohesive than frozen which felt like a mess of a story..but i'm giving them too much credit, modern day disney just feels bland overall. It's like saying a bowl of oatmeal with sugar on it is slightly better than one without it lol

[ryoko]

I think Tangled had a better story, but I must say Kristoff's 80's music video montage song was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. If you haven't experienced cheesy '80s music videos, here's an example (albeit a literal version) of one:

[azzy-m]

I'm almost tempted to rewrite Frozen and Frozen 2's story. Almost.

Gonna put that in the backburner with the other stuff I've been thinking of rewriting, along with RWBY, Voltron, and Star vs....

[spadedigsbutts]

OH I GOT STRING FEELINGS BIUT THIS WOO. Both of them suffer from what all Disney Pixar films tend to trend towards in that literally every single recent one is a road trip movie. Moana? Road trip across the ocean for a magic item. Frozen? Road trip to find sister. Tangled? Road trip to lantern castle. Coco? Road trip to dead relative. Inside out? Road trip back to the control booth. Once you notice they’re all road trip movies they really start to bleed together in some ways not helped by each having several studio mandated action chase sequences that waste time and contribute nothing to character they’re just sort of there (mine chase scene in tangled, wold sled chase scene in frozen etc. ).

From a narrative standpoint, tangled is probably the better story since characters all have clear motivations and payoffs and the story is generally consistent throughout. Like the villain a lot too she’s entertaining and also REALLY REMINDS ME OF IRL PEOPLE I KNOW so good job there. I think the main thing is that parts of it are just very forgettable and come off as...idk, sorta sanitized? There’s also just some things that were a bit superfluous...like I literally always forget there’s a chameleon until I watch it again and go “when was there a chameleon “ since it’s just there for MERCH/ basically telling audience plot points? Idk it’s a fine movie, it’s pretty, I like watching it, and it’s generally consistent.

Frozen is defiantly the weaker since so much of its story in both films is very messy. I have a friend who’s family member did work as a storyboarder on frozen 2 and apparently it was horrible because there were so many rewrites that the art department was just constantly getting fucked. Frozen 2 I’m not going to address really because I think anyone who has watched it basically can look and tell it had issues. Like I didn’t even hate it it just...obviously had a shit ton of problems with story and characters . Frozen is probably the better of the two, but it still had issues. Like Anna doesn’t really have an arc outside of “Dont fall in love in a day “ which was then sort of undermined by the fact kristoph falls in love with her in a way so you’re like “which is it??”. Elsa then has the opposite problem where her entire character IS HER ARC. Ummm yeah I could go on it has problems​

[nostalgicroxas]

HAHHAHHA oh my god. Princess & The Frog is a roadtrip movie too. Zootopia myster+road trip. The Good Dinosaur road trip. wikis the list Bolt, also CG movie, also road trip.

So according to the list I found, the only movies that aren't blatant road trip movies that are recent ish are : Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons, and Lilo & Stitch. Most of the others between Lilo to present day (that are done by Disney Animation Studios) are roadtrips. Forget if Home on the Range was... but I think it was. The other non-roadtrip movies, coincidentally, are from the Renaissance era: Tarzan, Hercules, Hunchback, ect.

List of Disney theatrical animated features

Also, Pascal is hilarious. I love his non-spoken gestures. Like what has this chameleon been exposed to in Rapunzel's books XD

[Iris-Grimoire]

It's amazing how expressive and fun Pascal is, but then Frozen 2 comes and the Fire Elemental is kind of useless. But they sure marketed it exactly like him!

[NickRowler]

The first Wreck It Ralph was not a road trip film (tho the second kind of is). I feel like it's more of a sports film. The underdogs, the training section, the falling out, etc.

Big Hero 6 is a superhero film also not a road trip.

[spadedigsbutts]

Yeah a lot of the older ones aren’t but quite a few are road trip type movies. I think it happens because there’s like this very easy formula for it that hits a bunch of point that Disney executives want and just In general it’s easy to manufacture conflict and such idk. And Pascal is definitely adorable!! I just wish they gave him more to actually do in the movie​

[spadedigsbutts]

Totally agree! Kind of feels like they may have just reskinned and edited the Pascal model too which sort of makes it worse to me

Also can we talk about how inconsistent the elementals were?? Fire is a lizard, water is a horse, earth are....stone guys...and the wind is just the wind?! 🤣

[Iris-Grimoire]

That part was just so dumb, AGAIN, obvious seam of a rewrite or redesign. Salamander, Undine, Gnome, Sylph(which would be invisible but probably able to be frozen into a shape of SOMETHING), it was right there. Either go all in with the alchemical elements or do something else, don't half ass such a huge concept.

Then again, the series exists from not wanting to go all in or out with The Snow Queen, considering they didn't even keep the names of the characters and the only supporting character to make the cut is Bae/Sven.

[NickRowler]

Also can we talk about how inconsistent the elementals were?? Fire is a lizard, water is a horse, earth are....stone guys...and the wind is just the wind?! 🤣

So some of them are based of of mythical creatures

Fire Lizard is a fire salamander which appears in Northern European folklore and it is what charmander from Pokemon is based off of.

The water horse is based off of kelpies which are from Celtic folklore.

The stone guys are golems which come from Hebrew folklore.

I don't know about the wind thing tho.

[spadedigsbutts]

Someday I’ll get my good adaptation of the Snow Queen. The old concept art for Frozen looked so dang good uhnnnn

[spadedigsbutts]

I understood all the mythological references, they just....weren’t consistent in any way? The advertising went so hard in showcasing a very specific region’s ethnic group and then they just sorta mangled multiple pieces of lore from all over Europe together it had me very ????