The 'Best New Webcomics' dilemma

minzinger 2015-01-07 02:14:36 UTC #47

@Kenn - Nope, the site is really yours. We are a self-publishing platform. We like the democratic approach and the staff is here to moderate. For the lack of a better word (maybe there is), we're are like the government trying to mediate to build a country. We are building the economy (premium, support, etc.) and our fees are like sales taxes. With taxes, we need to invest more in education, technology and infrastructure, etc.

ck_tapastic 2015-01-07 02:56:13 UTC #48

@minzinger nailed it - especially from mobile standpoint

Kenn 2015-01-07 03:19:26 UTC #49

This is something I've had a bit of an interest.

I do a print format comic but there's no reason the pages couldn't be adapted for Mobile- I guess it's knowing the tricks of doing it right!

minzinger 2015-01-07 17:38:11 UTC #50

I think this is the part people get confused. Try to use Facebook entire website on mobile instead of its mobile site. Or try using Tapastic's entire website on mobile. Try clicking, zooming, etc. It's a completely horrible experience. So what do companies do? Create a mobile site that is a completely designed and built from scratch. That's exactly what comic creators need to do. Just because you scan and make it available on mobile w/ pinch zoom doesn't make it "mobile."

kurisquare 2015-01-07 18:09:08 UTC #51

So websites like Facebook or Tapastic have a different interface for mobile users - what if we could have our comics up in both a web and mobile version? I understand your point when you suggest doing our comics in a more mobile-friendly format, but at the same time I think many of us don't want to just give up on more traditional web-based layouts considering they have so much potential.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the "scroll forever" layout but I understand it's more readable for mobile users. Even then,I wouldn't want to change my whole comic just to cater to mobile users, when web readers could have a better experience. It's like we had to use the Mobile version of tapastic in our computers - way more limited! It'd make more sense if we could adapt to both just like websites do.

minzinger 2015-01-07 18:33:05 UTC #52

@kurisquare Well, giving up traditional is up to you. I think almost 7 out of 10 people now read Tapastic on mobile. It used to be 6 of 10. So in terms of "potential," the reality is that it's mobile. I'm here to lay out the facts but the decision is up to you.

And PC/computers are rapidly converging to mobile experience. Soon web will be rolled into mobile-like apps. You notice launchpads on mac and windows looking more than the phones we use.

kurisquare 2015-01-07 23:07:06 UTC #53

Note that when I'm talking about "potential" I refer to the storytelling and the form of comics itself, not the potential of the web. The pacing, flow and feeling of a comic are not the same in a strictly vertical panel-after-panel layout or a page-like layout, or even a horizontal one. The layout of a comic can give a lot of possibilities in the storytelling of a comic, as there are many other options than displaying panel after panel in a really long line.

And I don't think it's just "everything converting to mobile" but also mobile layouts getting more complicated and full with bigger screens (bigger phones, tablets, etc). Even though there are lots of mobile users now (I know it and accept it), mobile sites still haven't reached the completeness of regular websites, which is why we still have adaptive sites that work differently for desktop and mobile.

Kenn 2015-01-08 04:48:52 UTC #54

I know that feel

My thoughts are that if you've created an image with a high enough resolution (which I'd be pretty surprised if you hadn't, Kuri X3) that it'd be possible to take the frames and work/amend them to a Mobile structure.

I'm not sure if you're interested but I'm not sure if it's worth looking at something like having a group that creators can use to easily talk to each other (perhaps through Skype or something?) for people who are usually shortform creators that can work together to help each other grasp the art of adapting the pages to longform for Mobile? I think it's something a number of creators would want to do but it looks like a lot of us just look at the format like some mythical beast lol.

shinepaw 2015-01-08 12:47:25 UTC #55

Hm, how about an option to post both mobile and web format comics? So whoever want to do it can add both versions, or if the creator don't want to bother with it then it'd stay the same like now... I'm just thinking out loud.

kurisquare 2015-01-08 12:53:32 UTC #56

Yes! You can still work on whatever format you want and then adapt it to mobile if necessary, that way we don't have to quit using whatever format we think is best for our comics. PHD Comics is doing something like this, the original comic is made of horizontal strips but the Tapastic version is arranged vertically to be read on mobile.

I haven't used Skype in a while but a group sounds nice! My comics aren't completely vertical so I'm not very experienced with this format, it'd be fun to share some knowledge (:

Yes, this!! this exactly!!

PotooGryphon 2015-01-08 14:02:27 UTC #57

You can currently do this by creating another series of the same comic in vertical format. I'm currently doing this with my comic, Oops Comic Adventure. I have one series in vertical format and the other in horizontal format, and readers get to choose which series they'd prefer to follow. Currently, like how the Tapastic team has mentioned, the vertical format is the more popular series.

Kenn 2015-01-08 14:04:18 UTC #58

Okay, there's a bit of a, how should I put it - 'discrepancy'.

I'm not a user of the mobile site, I do all my access via a PC so I don't know what appears on the front page of that version. But why is there an argument for how Mobile comics feature on the Desktop site? I mean, they're different versions after all.

As I say, it could be the same spotlighted entry on both version, but I definitely think it's a point worth putting out there.

shinepaw 2015-01-08 14:23:19 UTC #59

I know there is this option, but I don't consider it quite effective, since it divides the subscribers, the likes, and comments, not even speaking about the visitor stats. And in my opinion it'd be much better to have everything in one place when it's the same comic, just in different format. And that way the readers wouldn't have to choose, but they'll get the web or mobile version, depending on what they use. I know for one that I mainly use PC to view the site, but often I view it on my mobile when I get notifications of a new comic page. But I won't follow a comic twice just so I can view them in the right format, depending on where I look at the site.

Lately I use the vertical format as well, but I still work in my old web and print friendly format and then turn it into Tapastic friendly.

Kenn 2015-01-08 14:28:00 UTC #60

If you felt up to it Cyndi, I'm sure your guidance would definitely be enlightening if we all talk on Skype together at some point~

PotooGryphon 2015-01-08 14:30:39 UTC #61

Yes, agreed, it'd be nice if there was like a toggle button or like the language dropdown menu you can choose which format.

I understand readers not wanting to follow the same comic series twice, so I try to remedy that by making the vertical format a completely new/different reading experience. It's not always easy to completely rework the page like that, but it can be a fun creative challenge.

@Kenn-I'll try to jump on to Skype later tonight.

Kenn 2015-01-08 14:38:04 UTC #62

Unfortunately I'm only around for the next hour and a half X3

(Gosh darn timezones and all that!) I checked your latest page just now (I still need to read Chapter 3 onwards I think?) but I was hella impressed how you'd adapted it!

kurisquare 2015-01-08 17:10:27 UTC #63

Good point there - I remember one discussion on the frontpage feature in which the staff said they only features mobile-friendly comics, but the frontpage feature only shows up on the desktop version...and the mobile site has different features in its homepage.

Gabbi 2015-01-08 19:18:41 UTC #64

Some thoughts about the comic format discussion (tarditional-vertical and mobile-horizontal).
I am well aware that the comic industry has a big potential on mobile, but I still prefer to create my comics in a more traditional way for two main reasons. One that I think that the reading flow and storytelling works and look better for my story.

Second reason is that I one day plan to print my comic into a book, as I'm often away at cons selling my stuff. Maybe a lot of comic creators here only plan to keep their comic as a webcomic. If so, I can see how it's easier to adapt their comic to a more mobile friendly format.
But making a comic in a horizontal format just doesn't work for me if I want to print it later.

tycerimert 2015-01-08 21:50:50 UTC #65

Yeah it's bugged me for awhile now too :/

I think it'd be cool if they just added categories to the area that have the "Most"

Almost like ebay and such where you could change it to least to most or maybe add a random creator or comic button. I feel like the site sort of promotes already popular comics and, like you said, the usual slice of life ones. (Not that anything is wrong with them!)

You have to go through page after page of the alphabetized order to see and find other ones. I've found some really interesting ones but usually it's not through the front page DX

Your ideas on the subject would be awesome to see implemented so I'll cross my fingers! n_n

Kenn 2015-01-08 23:29:35 UTC #66

And also we appear to have come circle at the SEO point : P There's been a lot said, but it feels a little bit like we've shifted back to square one. We've shifted onto the topic of Mobile, but it also seems like a shift in focus, what if you're a serious webcomic that does longform? I'm not sure if it's just me? But it feels like the main problem has been shifted, so okay, so say that creators decide to change or adapt to longform, what then?

I think a lot of traditional form artists are feeling this way, it's why I mentioned us talking on somewhere like Skype (Where as of last night we now have a more serious, focused chat that would be perfect) where we could help each other to get our collective heads around the adaption to longform (ie. Keeping our comic but also having a version that reads better for Mobile, like Cyndi does). It's something that in theory should be easy, but understanding the whole format is another thing entirely!