Sep 2019
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Sep 2019
Dec 2019
xabelmind
Sep '19

It sounds like they are mixing do something for your enjoyment and receiving feedback.

So there are four ways:

  • You enjoyed the work and want some appreciation.
  • You enjoyed the work and don't want feedback (usually here, you don't post it).
  • You didn't enjoy the work, you just want appreciation.
  • You didn't enjoy the work nor want feedback (usually here you burn, shred or bury the piece in a stormy night without moon).

People saying that sentence you quoted is putting you in the third point and don't consider the existence of the first.

So it would be great to let them know that you and the big majority of human beings, like to do what they enjoy, share it with others and receive feedback for it, because our social nature calls for social acceptance and support :heart:

It'll blow their mind :smile:

carloswebcomic
Sep '19

This is something that really burst my tits.
The problem I've found with webcomic communities is that a lot of creators think they are artists, and by that I mean, what they imagine an artist is. So many believe that they are creating magic by shooting fairy dust out of their arses.

I know a few artists, not some guy with a webcomic, but people who have exhibitions and make a living with their art. They are not under any allusion that they are making magic or food for the soul (or whatever other rubbish people think they do). It's work, and with all work, a pay off is expected.
Art is a product, whether you like it or not. Sure, you can make things for yourself but frankly, comics, are made for mass consumption. It's a communication tool.You have every right to want people to read it and appreciate it. In fact, you have every rights to want thousands of readers.

So how do you deal with people not reading?
You change, improve and adapt. Find out what your strengths are and build on them. This is how you don't lose hope, keep looking for a formula that works, because it's somewhere out there and you just need to find it.

joannekwan(ง ˙o˙)ว here to help~
Sep '19
xabelmind

See now I'm pretty sure this applies to 99% of things posted on the internet.
The issue is when the viewers that do come across the work created don't particularly care for it.

Like, I'm happy an artist is happy making their inflation porn comic. But am I gonna give it a like/share or go out of my way to tell them "Yo! I'm happy this is your thing and you seem to love what you do!", heck no! It's not to my taste nor do I have the time to give everyone a clap of encouragement.

AceRagz
Sep '19
carloswebcomic

Your definition of an artist is a bit off too. In truth most of those which we can consider to be true artist broke their backs working and getting next to no payback. some didn't even get recognition until after they were dead. Expecting to get paid for everything you produce is entitlement to me. Not everything you do is going to yield some sort of monetary or respect return.

joannekwan(ง ˙o˙)ว here to help~
Sep '19

I think artist though is a broad term, same with a lot of other terms.

Like is an accountant who goes to the gym for hours everyday and does triathlons on the weekends less of an athlete than a professional basketball player?

AceRagz
Sep '19

A very good point. i'm just tired of carlos popping in and putting this same opinion into every thread about artists that no one is a true artist but those getting paid for their work in exhibitions.

HGohwell
Sep '19
DokiDokiTsuna

Haha as always someone eventually turns up as says what I'm trying to say in far simpler clearer terms. Thank you!

I do understand people are trying to say it to be encouraging and mean it from a good place, but at the same time, you could say the same about people who say "you're so talented" and we've all seen how much that offends people around here. They're trying to give praise but instead people feel like it's minimizing their effort. It's the same in my eyes. I don't snap at people for saying it, because I know they mean well, but it quietly bothers me.

I know I've said I'm not asking for advice and I tend to just push through and this is mostly not the point of the topic, but this is one of the problems with my current situation. I can't really take much of a break because I'm in convention prep time. I often use my social media to gauge the interest in art for prints for conventions and usually it works quite well. Suddenly getting no feedback or reaction to anything I post means with just under 2 months until the next convention I'm questioning what goes out to print. Going from a reasonable response to nothing is a pretty scary thing at this point in time, which doesn't help the frustration.

IndigoShirtProd
Sep '19
carloswebcomic

I feel like your definition of artist lacks nuance. . . and context. . . and open mindedness. . . and understanding . Look what I want to know is, 1) do you draw your own comic, and 2) if you do, do you not qualify yourself as an artist. Sorry to diverge from the topic at hand, but if your definition of an artist is whether not they are a professional or have a gallery full of work, that's kind of distressing.

carloswebcomic
Sep '19
1
AceRagz

No, you're not understanding what I'm getting at. Success doesn't make an artist. What I'm pointing out is that if you do the work, it's reasonable to expect a payoff. Why do you think those artists broke their back? To be ignored? No, they broke their back for a payoff.

The idea that one should only create for oneself because that's what artists does should never be applied as a set standard. People do what they do for their own reasons and that's just fine, but they shouldn't impose it on others.

spadesart
Sep '19

to me it feels kind of like baking. people can absolutely love baking and dream to make a living out of it and have fun cooking, but if they serve something and nobody ever tries it, even if the person who made it thought it came out perfect, theyre gonna be discouraged and disappointment. i draw because i genuinely like creating but i do still crave the validation of sharing the experience with others because like food, its a big part of artwork.

VibrantFoxRegular
Sep '19
AceRagz

i kinda wish someone would elaborate this point because sure you cant monetize every single thing you make but is it really entitlement to want at least something from some of the things you make or am i going loco

like there's been situations where i see the word selfish being tossed around sometimes (not too much here more twitter and other social media) and i just want to know what defines someone as being selfish.

In regards to the main topic point it does get a little tiring to hear "create for yourself" because on one hand yes one might be creating things they like or want to see or have interest in but there's also a desire for a bit of return on hours of work being put in. It definitely feels like an easy blanket response but can fall flat if something isn't solely a hobby for an individual.

Personally I've had to force myself not to conflate it with "create for the joy of creating/because your passionate about it" because phrases like that tend to be immediate agitators. Yes there's passion in creating but 'passion alone can't fill ones stomach'.

I see nothing wrong with wanting a little attention or a lot. It's understandable to become frustrated and makes even more sense to eventually feel burned due to that frustration but in terms of solutions that's what seems the most difficult to find especially from on individual to another especially since different people have different goals.

I've been feeling this kind of burnout and mostly keeping quiet because while I still want to be able to get some attention on certain things I don't want to come of as whiny or "entitled" by complaining about or even mentioning the lack of it.

AceRagz
Sep '19
carloswebcomic

Well there is a difference between hoping for some attention or payback compared to -expecting- it. When you expect it every single time is when I feel you get the people that believe everything they produce is magical fairy dust as you put it.

carloswebcomic
Sep '19

But the point is that the idea that one should be happy if no one reads your work because you're doing it for yourself is not realistic and no one should be held to that standard.
Expecting or hoping, in the end, if you do the work, there's nothing wrong with people wanting a payoff.

IndigoShirtProd
Sep '19
carloswebcomic

That's not what I got at all, but sure. I'll take you at your word.

If you put in the work and prospects are good, you should get something in return whether it be money, recognition, or something else.

I feel like people are understanding that when someone says "create for yourself" when referring to themselves, them mean create for yourself alone. Earlier I defended that statement, "create for yourself" and I still do. While my first priority is to create for myself regardless if I get anything out of it, it's not my only priority. First and foremost I want to make something I can enjoy, but it's not as though I never want to get noticed or earn money off what I do.

And back to what you said @carloswebcomic. Success doesn't make a artist, making art makes an artist.

AceRagz
Sep '19
carloswebcomic

No where did I say in my statements that I do it for myself. Like I said in other posts if people read it good enough for me. There isn't anything wrong with wanting a pay off but expecting it is getting into this mindset that everything you do is certain to have a payoff. I have a realistic belief that I'm probably not going to make a living off my work that is why I own my own real life business and am self employed and don't rely on my art alone.

carloswebcomic
Sep '19

Yes, you should be realistic, but the issue is that some people people believe that no one should ever want or expect a payoff.
Now, how much of payoff you want, that's a different matter and subject to expectation vs reality, but following the subject of this thread, there's nothing wrong with wanting more than just a vacuum of silence.

joannekwan(ง ˙o˙)ว here to help~
Sep '19

I think ultimately, the most important thing is to define what a individual creator's goal is before giving advice.
Do they want to get lots of views and cultivate a following? Do they want to create x-thing for their own self improvement and simply have it available to the public for more accessible feedback?

Personally, after I graduated college, anything I post online I welcome any sort of response. Right now it is largely about trying to grab people's attention, since I want to ultimately monetize it. But before I was aware of the plethora of sharing networks online, I was pretty happy just making things to entertain myself.

I think back to the first graphic novel I ever completed. It was created years ago during college, way before I even considered sharing a comic on the internet. I think maybe only 10 or fewer people have actually read the whole thing and I never got any real feedback on it. But I enjoyed making it, the whole process from scripting, drawing, photo-editing, graphic-designing, printing, and binding 3 copies into an actual book by hand. I was practicing, putting my skills to work. And I was happy with it. I even ended up using it as part of my senior project/thesis.

And even the comics I made in high school, the only person I really shared them with were my dad. They stood as my own twisted diary entries, blending real jokes and funny situations from my classmates with completely invented fantasies, fun stuff I wish could happen, often parroting the wacky shenanigans of the cartoons I watched. So while my dad's reactions were the cherry on top, I was satisfied that I could make myself laugh with my own imagination and recollections.

(If you can't tell I'm an only child lol.)

HGohwell
Sep '19
spadesart

Another spot on analogue for my feelings on this I feel the need to highlight. Why are you guys all so much more eloquent than I am?

Also I'm noticing a lot of talk of baking. Is everyone craving cake? Or are a lot of us just also bakers?

carloswebcomic
Sep '19
joannekwan

This!
Every defines their own payoff.