The myth of the low effort super popular webcomic

[Kayke]

I was just having this convo with another cartoonist earlier today! It's so frustrating to hear people act as if others are "cheating" the system somehow to make their comics popular.

There are also a ton of un-popular pokemon, slice of life, and BL comics, so that should clue people in that those aren't like magic popular spells used by comic witches/wizards hahah

[WakaXO]

Well said.

Sometimes it seems like people are afraid of hard work, but hard work is nothing to be ashamed of or to be avoided. As the saying goes "nothing worth having comes easy"

[Nio_Kasgami]

ahahah I almost feel concerned with this...

but yeah this a good explaination c:

[AnnaLandin]

Well put!

A lot of people scoff at autobio comics with black and white cartoony art, or whatever, because they think it requires zero effort, but it's just not true. Even IF - and that's a big "if" - the artist is able to draw all that stuff with no effort, there's still a lot of invisible work that goes into comics. The writing, the layouts, the structuring of jokes, etc., etc.

And that's to say nothing of the time and effort that goes into promoting the thing and putting it in front of people's eyes.

Comics are hard, y'all. Be nice to fellow comic artists.

[carloswebcomic]

I was just having this convo with another cartoonist earlier today! It's so frustrating to hear people act as if others are "cheating" the system somehow to make their comics popular.

Yeah, the idea that you can cheat and somehow fool people into reading your comic has always amused me.

And that's to say nothing of the time and effort that goes into promoting the thing and putting it in front of people's eyes.

Yeah, putting your stuff out there and then having to post update links in 10 different places, not to mention figuring out how to best advertise and doing extra promotional stuff... Holy crap! It's so much work!

[Simon_M]

Just because it requires effort to make a popular webcomic doesn't mean that what usually trends or gets popular is any good, which, while you're not saying it, seems to be implied. In fact, the sole fact that these discussions tend to center around whether getting popular is difficult or not already tells how little we discuss the merits of actual works, whether they get a 1000 likes or just 10.

[Mikayi]

I notice that the comics that are popular normally have been on the site for a long time. Or there when the place first started. Others I could only assume they advertised very well, there something that people like to read or they had some fan base before starting which normally means they build it up in other ways then just comics.

I look at what's popular because it comes up on the mobile version with pages. And you can always tell that those people put a lot of effort into it.

[gone]

I like how this was put actually...but i wanna make a pokemon fan comic cause...im a fan of pokemon and i wanna meet other fans^^ i make an adventure time (the cartoon) fan comic and have met some fans of that too! But back on topic when everi see those kinds of comics i normally see all the effort they put into COLORING amd things like that. Normally due the short length, people think its no effort but things like coloring, effects, and GIFs ATE HARD TO DO and take alot of time....and no one seems to see that. Lol but they'll get it when they try it and they fail

[carloswebcomic]

Just because it requires effort to make a popular webcomic doesn't mean that what usually trends or gets popular is any good

Yeah, but that's completely subjective.
If people read it and it becomes popular, it means people think is good. If you think it's terrible, then that's not the comic's problem.

[Shanny8]

What others do is what they do. I cant worry about that- I need to concentrate on making my own comic.

I'm just a guy that came on here earlier this year and just got my comic started earlier this month, while a lot of the more popular stories have been on here for years. I dont complain about the technique, effort, or skill(or lack of) they've used coz the bottom line is they've most likely put in as much work as I have...and if they havent, I just keep it movin with the knowledge that I'm not the best artist and/or the best writer. I'm just here to create a good story- on my own terms.

[Simon_M]

Quality is not entirely subjective, no. Even if you don't like James Joyce's Ulysses you would be a fool to try to argue that is worse than Twilight just because is not as popular, or that they can't be compared because they are different works with different audiences. Yes, they are for different audiences, but they can still be compared as cultural works, and one is incredibly influential and revolutionary and you would need months and months of research to get all the cultural references and the other is badly written entertainment.

And it still required effort to be written and courage on Meyers' part to show it, but that doesn't mean it's good or that anything would be lost if it didn't exist. You erase Ulysses, and the latter half of XXth century literature is basically gone.

[carloswebcomic]

But it is still subjective.
You can point at how influential and how highly regarded something is, but if you don't like it, to you it is still terrible.
Ever read The Divine Comedy? It's fucking ridiculous! Sure, I know it is an important work of literature, but fuck me if it wasn't annoying!
It's nothing but self inserting fan fiction with way too much flowery dialogue. I had a much better time reading a Garfield book.
So to me, Garfield is better than Dante. How could I say that despite The Divine Comedy being regarded as a seminal work of literature?
Because quality is subjective and completely up to the individual. You can't make me enjoy Dante and dislike Garfield, because that is my own opinion and no one can really change that other than myself.

[Simon_M]

It will still be read and discussed after you're dead, whereas Garfield will likely fade into obscurity. Your "everything is relative" position ultimately becomes a very absolutist position, where what you don't like equals bad, and what you like is good. That doesn't foster criticisim or creative sophistication. And look at tv. Thousands of series every season. Which ones people remember? Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men... works that can be discussed and decoded and analyzed because they are objectively better and more sophisticated than the rest. They don't give big audiences, necessarily. But it ultimately pays off (The Wire is the big example of that). That won't happen here if we go exclusively by the metric of "oh, if it's popular, it's good". No, it's not. But it's giving them clicks and they don't have enough staff to do any other type of promotion, so whatever. That won't stop people from thinking that some of the popular comics look without meaningful effort.

[carloswebcomic]

Well, I do think that a lot of stuff that is popular (music, TV and Movies) tend, in my onion, to be trash. What I also believe in though, is that I have no right to tell people what they like is trash. If they enjoy it, more power to them no matter what my opinion is.
You can try to expose them to better alternatives, but at the end of the day, people will like what they like.

[kambreapratt]

Having been around quite awhile, I can tell you that you honestly CAN cheat your comic's numbers, alexa, comments, etc and appear that you are much bigger than you are. That in turn can "trick" people into reading your comic because they think it's popular. It happens in comics, on youtube, in podcasting, and it isn't uncommon. We did a whole "expose" on how to cheat Top Web Comics once.
There is a reason why the expression "Fake it till you make it" appeared.
I've seen it a lot over the years. Now that certainly does NOT mean everything popular is fake. Not by any means. I'm just saying that there are a lot of factors involved and some choose to sway those factors in their favor by paying for them.

[carloswebcomic]

Having been around quite awhile, I can tell you that you honestly CAN cheat your comic's numbers, alexa, comments, etc and appear that you are much bigger than you are. That in turn can "trick" people into reading your comic because they think it's popular. It happens in comics, on youtube, in podcasting, and it isn't uncommon.

Never head of this! I guess you can cheat the system and 'trick' people into clicking on your comics, however I would imagine it would be more difficult to trick people into subbing, unless I'm missing something.

[kambreapratt]

You have to remember only a couple sites are like Tapastic where you have "subs" and it's more of a recent thing--in the last couple of years. You can buy subs. Go to a place like Fiverr and you can get facebook, youtube, etc. It's not out of the realm of possibility that you can buy subs for any site.
I do think there is cheating going on with subs too. I haven't figured it out yet, but on Webtoons, when a see a comic with 1 update, and like 900 views but 600 subs, it's a bit questionable. Statistically, very unlikely. So yes, I do think there is cheating going on there too. I only recently took notice of this, so I haven't had the time to look into it more.

As far as cheating webcomics in general, it's been going on for years. You can buy pretty much anything...alexa, page views, upvotes, fb followers, tumblr followers, twitter followers, subscribers, etc.

[miseryhunting]

But it is still subjective.You can point at how influential and how highly regarded something is, but if you don't like it, to you it is still terrible.Ever read The Divine Comedy? It's fucking ridiculous! Sure, I know it is an important work of literature, but fuck me if it wasn't annoying!

And look at tv. Thousands of series every season. Which ones people remember? Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men... works that can be discussed and decoded and analyzed because they are objectively better and more sophisticated than the rest

I agree with Simon_M! I has the opportunity to edit a friends dissertation on this exact topic (with focus on Mad Men) and while there is a subjective factor, there are standards which absolutely deservedly identify the quality works - those with best quality of production, writing and message. Quality, however, doesn't necessarily mean entertaining. You should remember that not all that is entertaining is quality and things, which are quality might not appeal to the mass. They are not created for mass consumption - they are there to represent a message/change/innovation and appeal to a niche audience. This is is like Fifty Shades of Grey and The Idiot - one is more popular than the other, it doesn't mean it has better quality.
I also loved the Divine Comedy, but I guess it's not for everyone.

This however, doesn't mean anything when determining how much effort has been put in a comic.

[Pandastrophic]

Thank you for saying this!
I've been seeing so many posts on the forum about how some of the popular comics are 'low effort' and it's really frustrating because no one really knows how much time and effort is put into someone's work.
(Especially for the slice of life/gag a day comics, t sometimes might not show in the simple art but it shows in the writing. )

[Simon_M]

Yeah, I don't know about tapastic, but I tried to advertise through facebook and boy it's been a long learning experience, and a very counterintuitive one. There's so much "fake" likes that if you advertise the facebook page the site gets bloated with fake subscribers who don't participate... To the point that now my advertising there is designed to discourage mindless clicks, only advertising posts that announce when a new episode's up, never the facebook page itself, so that all the fake likes only affects posts and not the number of followers.