The whole 'I want an UNPAID artist' to work for me' thing

[EncryptedWriting]

No no no, you're 100% fine! I think my inner-writer was immediately on the hunt, but then I realized that you meant no harm. Your story + art is really captivating btw.

I think if two people are willing to collaborate to make a work together (since some artists would prefer to have someone help them write the story and writers want to see their stuff illustrated) there is nothing wrong with that. They're working together and getting something out of it

This is agree with. I think if you find a mutual agreement, and if an artist is perhaps struggling to formulate an idea, maybe they can work together. But, I agree for the most part.

Again, I realize now that when I have the funds to pay an artist to make my current novel into a webcomic, its gonna be so amazing! (and expensive, rip me).

[MottotteShinji]

I think writers who don't provide sufficient information is scared that their stories will get copied if they reveal anything and that their 'teenagers' who don't know how these things work.

I don't know I also saw the original with the sentences are posted and laughed at the guy who posted that shit HAHHA

[Swamp]

I made this post a while ago and stand by it

Let's face it, there's a lot of writers out there looking for artists. In fact, if you tell most artists with a comic that you want an artist, they'll tell you "yeah, me too" And there's a good reason for this! As somebody who solved the artist problem by learning to draw myself, my writing takes about half an hour a page, while the art takes up to eight hours a page. That's a lot to ask somebody to put into your idea! Especially when there's a good chance they have their own stories to come t…

Asking somebody to do your art for free is asking A Lot. i don't think it's wrong to ask, but it's something you need to go about carefully and humbly.

[EncryptedWriting]

this this this

Agree with this. No harm in asking, but you need to know what to ask, how to be appropriate, and recognize WHAT you are asking someone to do.

[smokesalty]

Don't worry about it, I get what you mean.

And yup, paying for art is incredibly expensive so I understand writers would prefer it be done for cheaper (but that's just not how it works unfortunately) For me, I'd love to hire a base colourist so I can get more pages out but even that is quite expensive!

This thread mainly comes from my experience as an artist, where a lot of people want you to do stuff for free (like someone wanted me to make an entire reference sheet for free for them and blocked me when I declined) It's kind of cause people think that if you enjoy art you should be happy doing it for no pay for someone.

In short, I think this sort of stuff needs to be discussed so both ends feel satisfied and happy with the work they're doing so it's mutually enjoyable.

[smokesalty]

I think this is great! Thanks for sharing your thread.

[aqua03]

I'm Glad that my Dank MayMays can help inspire you to bring light to a genuine issue online in the art community.

[smokesalty]

what happened with that guy? I think I may have seen the post but I'm not entirely sure what happened.

[EncryptedWriting]

Absolutely agree. I've started slowly getting some commissions done for my characters, and seeing the final result is legit the best feeling ever. To know I am supporting an artist while getting art is so lovely. I've recently commissioned twice, once because I was looking for art and the other cause I knew she was struggling slightly. We became friends (somewhat), and it is just a rewarding process.

As an artist, I know you (and many others) have probably faced the whole "can you draw me or my oc? Please?" and then when you're like "yo it costs money" they're like "well, you're not that good anyway." Basically all r/choosingbeggars.

[MottotteShinji]

i don't know tbh didnt view the post until it already... calmed down... i think

[MottotteShinji]

as a wanna be artist whos been struggling to study bg art I can agree with artist being so mad when asked to draw with no payment at all

[Kuma]

I'm a writer and utterly despise any writers who do this.

You pay your artist or learn how to draw. You don't ask a stranger on the internet to work essentially for free.

Is a matter of respect for others.

I often have to contend with people who tell me "I have a great idea for a story" and usually is something so burnt it's like getting hit by a puff of ashes.

Collaboration is possible, but after an understanding, knowledge of each other and generating a working relationship.

[MeltingCORE]

As a writer and artist, I honestly feel exasperated when I see "can someone work for free" posts. I mean yes, maybe some people will make things for free and maybe it will work out fine for them. But it tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think that's because it goes back to the whole thing where people devalue art or think it's easy. Creating takes a lot of time and effort and pretty much all of us on Tapas are making expansive, long stories for free already. I value my work too much (but I'd love to draw for a fee). That's why I do commissions.

...But some of the people making these types of posts are young and naive. So, in those cases - I just hope they learn why most people will say "no" and don't resort to spamming. (I've seen that happen before.)

(Also, I agree with what Kuma said about collabs. I have several musician friends/loved ones and I collab with them because I love them. It's harder to collab with a stranger simply because you don't even know each other.)

[Zhengo]

I get the appeal of wanting to make a comic, especially on a site like this that appeals to comic more, but if you really want a story out there, but can't draw or have the funds to pay an artist, why not just...write it in novel form? There's no shame in doing so, and outside of Tapas there are still a lot of other venues that are more focused on original written work.

[Lensing]

There are commissions and there are teams and that´s the first thing
you have to decide on. There is not much in between.

"Paying when it´s successful" is not a commission and is not a team and does not work
for both parties. Imagine you get hired to do a full time job in a factory
and the boss tells you that you will get paid when the company is successful
and additionally he can´t tell you how much they will pay you and then you
work 8 months in the company because you trust the boss you don´t
to fulfill his dream. Sounds ridiculous? But that´s what it is

A team is a super complicated thing. I worked in creative teams all my life, it only
works when the communication is on a high level, you need detailed plans, roles,
luck, 2 people with similiar schedules and ideas who can talk to each other.

The easiest thing you can do is having a concrete plan, save money, pay people
enough money to get the quality you want in time. Work with pros, know the market,
act like a pro when it comes to communication, payment, deadlines, contracts

[darthmongoose]

There's a pretty common issue with these threads that's kind of a problem with society in general, which is treating the ability to make good art as a "gift" that some people have, like being an X-men mutant, instead of a "skill" a person has developed through the application of years of training and probably invested a fair bit of money in.

You see it all the time in these threads, "sadly, I have no drawing ability", "Alas, I have tried to draw a few times and I cannot even draw a stick figure". The honest translation is practically always, "I have not spent the necessary time developing professional drawing skills", which raises the question: what have you spent the time doing? What skills were you developing while I was drawing so much that, I'm not kidding, one of my thumbs is slightly shorter than the other? If it's learning to be a really awesome writer and maybe also studying marketing strategy, then a partnership can still potentially work, because those are skills an artist may not have developed because they were too busy sinking all their hours into drawing. If you are genuinely passionate about writing really great comics, there ought to be evidence all over the internet of things you've written before. All the professional writers I know, you can probably find their work in RPGmaker games, or entries to Futurequake, or novels on Tapas or at least prolific amounts of fanfic

I've worked unpaid with writers before, and in every instance, there was one thing these writers had in common: They had put in the time into writing and had the same passion for writing as I have for drawing. They had written things before, like books, short stories or games, or they'd even tried to make a comic with the best scrappy or simple art they could manage, and I could go and look at it, and because of that dedication, they were excellent writers with clearly more skill in that area than me. If the writer has put in equivalent time and work to honing their craft as the artist, they stop being just an "ideas guy" who wants you to make their comic happen, and they become an equally skilled partner you can team up with to create something greater than either of you could make alone.

There are plenty of successful comics where the creator was such a great writer that just putting something out there with simple art was enough to demonstrate their writing skill and make people want to work with them. Dinosaur comics is one of my personal favourite examples; it's literally just the same stock dinosaur images every time, but the clever concept and the incredibly sharp and funny writing propelled Ryan North into being a pretty popular comics writer.

If you have absolutely no interest in developing skills for writing OR drawing and literally all you want is either your dream comic to exist, or to have the prestige of your name on something that lots of people read... you're not really a writer, you're more like the producer or the investor or even just the client or patron. There's nothing wrong with being a client or patron; having a patron is a wonderful thing; the Mona Lisa wouldn't exist if somebody hadn't commissioned a portrait of his daughter... but the patron or client really just has one job: Give the artist money and a brief or direction, so if that's what you actually want to be, somebody who funds craftspeople to make wonderful things; go get a job in tech or something, make a bunch of money and do that.

[DelythThomasArt]

Got miffed at me calling him out and giving advice on what to offer along with mocking me making 1 mispelling.

[Legendofgenii]

Sorry you had to go through that.

Looks like they have left the forum now (after upsetting a few people).

[Lensing]

I´m in a digital artist group on face.
There just was a person who offered 150$ for a 40 page comic. 6 characters per page + backgrounds.
I asked, they didn´t mean 150$ per page, they meant 150 for the 40 pages. Like 3$ per page.
I´m not insulted by things like that but I think it´s really crazy to ask for something like that

[system]

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