Updating the Fresh Category--Change it for Comics Under 2000 Subs

skicoak 2019-06-02 18:04:18 UTC #34

I don't disagree with this statement...but my contention is Tapas is set up in such a way that you're forced to promote them, as much as yourself, if you wish to succeed on their platform.

If we're looking at it as a symbiotic relationship, it needs a balance.

LilySmash 2019-06-02 18:35:56 UTC #35

I do agree that the search engine here makes it a bit hard for smaller creators to be discovered. On other manga/comic websites they have an "advanced" search where you can checklist multiple things at the same time.
For example, I can check:

-multiple genres, and uncheck what genre I DON'T want. Unfortunately here, a comic can only have 1 genre.
-the letter "A: (it would be nice if Tapas actually displays the entire alphabet instead of going through over a thousand pages, or did i not find a way to do that yet? I'm new here)
-artist name
-chapter number: if it has 5 or less, over 10, over 100, over 200 chapters...etc
-complete vs ongoing
- view count? ( not sure if some websites have this, but this actually might be a backfired option ._. )

Overall, we just need more search options, I'd say.

JRHoch 2019-06-02 18:37:45 UTC #36

So do you think mainstream comics fare better on Webtoon?

skicoak 2019-06-02 18:54:03 UTC #37

No idea.

But the goal really might not be to score immediate success with the existing demographic as much as it's to foster new streams of readerships.

JRHoch 2019-06-02 18:59:19 UTC #38

I've found that the latter is very difficult to do.

Croik 2019-06-02 19:06:19 UTC #39

Well, sure. They're already giving you free hosting, a comment and liking system, basic analytics, and a tipping option, and in exchange they get pennies of ad revenue. And you can say "well I'm providing them with content" but a majority of series will never generate meaningful income for Tapas or the creator even with promotion. It's up to you to prove you're a good investment, just like on any other platform.

skicoak 2019-06-02 19:41:43 UTC #40

You're just listing the basics of any comic hosting site... and a tipping option that creates a revenue stream directly for Tapas.

I'm not mad at the business model but the true value of the subscriber model, here at Tapas, is the data mining applications... not in how it leads to "pennies of ad revenue".

As a sub-note, how would is it not on Tapas to increase promotional efforts in-house if the only metrics they acknowledge are in-house numbers? If you're selling ad revenue based on views, and you set up barriers to decrease views, that's weird business.

JRHoch 2019-06-02 20:11:42 UTC #41

What barriers do you think they create that decreases views? I'm not arguing with you; in fact I like the spirited debate between you and @Croik.

skicoak 2019-06-02 20:39:40 UTC #42

There's some debate on this... but repeated tests from our team show that traffic we drive from Facebook (and to a less degree Imgur) don't show up on our viewcounts on Tapas because they don't have/haven't signed into the Tapas app.

So if you're selling ads based on potential viewers... it seems counter productive to discount those outside your app, and not strive to find greater potential for creators to reach readers inside the app.

JRHoch 2019-06-02 20:46:21 UTC #43

So on Facebook and Imgur, you have direct links to various Tapas comics and those views are not being counted. I've done, recently, a small bit of advertising on TWC and can tell you that those views do show up. Unfortunately, most of those people read my comic but are not on Tapas and so they can't comment or subscribe. I'm curious if other people have seen something similar, where people read, and then just leave without ever deciding to join Tapas.

skicoak 2019-06-02 21:01:56 UTC #44

Yeah, comments and likes figure into Tapas's internal algorithms so not pushing readers to subscribe has other consequences too.

JRHoch 2019-06-02 21:09:46 UTC #45

So are you saying they should allow likes and comments even if someone isn't a subscriber? Would that create a potential spam problem? I don't know the logistics of these things. I still own a toaster.

Croik 2019-06-02 22:22:05 UTC #46

Yes? It's a comic hosting site. We are being provided a service we would normally have to pay for ourselves, for free. How many free services are you expecting them to offer, when the cost of offering them outweighs their rewards? Users and their engagement are a limited resource, so giving more promotion opportunities to new and/or unpopular series means taking it away from the premium series that are already proven to make a profit. It's asking a lot when you're already getting service for free.

JRHoch 2019-06-02 23:13:43 UTC #47

Many of the premium comics do so well BECAUSE they get so much promotion. Perhaps Tapas would have a deeper bench if they paid attention to more comics.

I'm not saying every comic should get an equal share, but more comics that readers may choose to follow is a good thing for Tapas and the community.

I'm sure Tapas could come up with a list of requirements that would eliminate many comics that would never become popular; there could be a Discover tab where you had to have a certain number of likes/subs/comments/postings but not at the numbers Premium comics currently have.

skicoak 2019-06-03 00:05:09 UTC #48

There's so many sites offering the same basic services now though...many with no obligation to pressure your social media circle into registering an account.

That's a helluva catch 22! You don't market/promote anything until you can make a direct profit off it based on it's ability to get popular without support?!?

There's a lot of rough math to this place... but what keeps popping up is when the variety of strips get more exposure... they get more subscribers/likes/comments. Exposure that can't be reached without site support.

Croik 2019-06-03 01:19:53 UTC #49

Which sites? Most sites that allow posting/liking/commenting on anything require that you sign up, including all social media sites.

Yes? I'm sorry, I don't understand what's unusual about this. If you want someone to spend their time/money/effort promoting you, you either have to have an existing following, or you have to be GOOD, just like any time you submit to a slush pile. Tapas is not lacking in talented and/or successful creators offering up their work for the writers camps and incubator and such, if you want to compete in that arena you gotta fight long and hard for it.

If it's curated by staff, that's the same as New And Noteworthy. If it's an algorithm, it's just trending minus the big guns. But trending is already pretty fair, I see smaller series on there all the time. And in either case you're still putting an arbitrary number on what does or doesn't deserve the bump.

I'm all for creators having more chances for visibility, but I still maintain that better searching/tagging is a much higher priority in that regard, tbh.

skicoak 2019-06-03 01:55:59 UTC #50

Are you mixing tangents up? You seemed to have crossed up the existence of other comic hosting providing the same basic services as Tapas with the problematic nature of Tapas only allowing views that are attached to registered/active accounts. It's links any attempt to get successful to our abilities to sell our projects with the same vigor we sign up new Tapas Accounts.

I ,optimistically, hope it's a symbiotic relationship. Otherwise, I pushed 50+ friends and family into a pyramid scheme designed to only push Tapas's premium content.

SleepingPoppy 2019-06-03 02:18:54 UTC #51

I mean, I think for Tapas the bonus is that simply by promoting yourself, you inherently promote them. They do utilize creators as a means of educating users on how to use the tapas app, which I have mixed feelings about. But I don't think there's anything predatory about this-- I realize you're not necessarily saying it's predatory. But as long as tapas is also investing in promoting themselves, and not purely relying on free content creators, doesn't seem like a bad thing?

What would make it more balanced? Or is it just the view counter thing? Honestly I've never tested it myself, but I always assumed the view counter counted any views, not just those from users with an account logged in. I'm not 100% willing to take your word for it, mostly because I don't have much information on what you did to test this, and if you were accounting for variables like ad block.

It would be nice to get staff word on the matter? Otherwise I'll look into it (for the sake of my own confirmation), and perhaps we can have multiple people try and test it. Would definitely be good to know for certain!

Zaboem 2019-06-03 02:30:47 UTC #52

In a perfect world, it would be great to have an automated Fresh List at the top and front of the app. In this world, Tapas has to think about liabilities. There is no human curation invovled, so a reprints of copyrighted materials do show up. Tapas would not want to a create a system where it showcases front and center a stolen comic.

Croik 2019-06-03 02:38:33 UTC #53

You said there are "so many sites" that offer hosting but don't pressure people to sign up, I'm asking what those are, because I only know this and Webtoon well, and Webtoon requires you to register if you want to sub, like, or comment on series. Unless you're specifically talking about the ability of friends and family to click on your comic and count as a single view that earns you $0.001?

Is that what you're saying? That your friends and family should be able to inflate your ad rev by one penny without registering, because registering for a free app is just too much to ask of people who want to support you but don't care about comics?

Because that sounds like a very good reason why Tapas shouldn't allow that, lol.