Visibility on Tapas

travelercomic 2020-03-06 22:50:11 UTC #6

Yeah, one thing I had to get used to after getting staff picked is having the purge of subs afterwards who drop you once you're off staff picks. When it happened the first time I kept thinking it was something we did wrong. Our comic has been picked two more times since then though so we've gotten used to it. Currently going through another drop of subs right now, but it doesn't bother me near as much because the active people commenting and actively theorizing make it worth it.

travelercomic 2020-03-06 22:55:01 UTC #7

I definitely don't have as much issue with the devs and I think while it's perfectly find to criticize them I feel like people give them too much flack, but yeah it's the people I see who decide to target and belittle other comics out of jealousy that irritates me so much. It might be that I had someone like that being horrible and belittling to me on Amino - I mean it's Amino, go fig I guess - when I was at only 600 subs. Long story short they actually admitted to me of their jealousy being the reason they were telling me that my comic was uninteresting and made no sense rather than it being real criticism and was an attempt to try and "get back" at me for giving them criticism they asked for.... but now I'm going on a tangent lol

It's not a great feeling to feel like you're being shunned for no other reason than someone thinks you're popular. Makes it even worse when you're really not lol

joannekwan 2020-03-06 22:55:12 UTC #8

I wonder if it's not just the natural stagnation of a series. Like even Harry Potter's reached a saturation point and would very unlikely see an explosion of growth even if it was rebooted somehow for the next generation.
Unless we are given metrics for the entire site, it's hard to make the claim concrete. But it certainly isn't to be discredited either.

travelercomic 2020-03-06 22:57:17 UTC #9

Yeh, that's why I say there's a lot of nuance that goes into why a comic doesn't get popular. Or in this case might stagnate. It's not very wise to forget that correlation isn't causation just because it's your own work that you're proud of. I'm proud of my work and think it's worthy of being well known and popular but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

YangKoete 2020-03-06 23:40:20 UTC #10

I'm a relatively small author and I just feel like I've burned out a lot of the time and my flames need reigniting to train myself more.

Sure, after 3 years, I've improved a lot...but right now? I feel so discouraged to post any art on Tapas. This new design isn't helping, but really...I just want people to see I exist. Even if I just have a small handful. I've tried advertising on Twitter, Deviantart, you name it.

I just feel so lonely almost. I can't describe my feelings towards this. It's almost like the website is against me. I know my art isn't super good or anything, but I'm not horrible at it.

I've thought of ways to get more things done, but...I dunno.

KRWright 2020-03-06 23:47:55 UTC #11

I agree with everything you've put here! But one thing I want to definitely boost is:

It's ironic that readers have supported me often 10x more than other creators have on Tapas when it comes to success with Premium. I rarely get any readers complaining about works going Premium, or Premium works being highlighted to them, but I've had fellow creators tell me I don't belong on the forums as a Premium author or that my works shouldn't be promoted. So like... this. I post free-to-read works as well, and work damn hard, and Tapas was my break-out site where I built my primary audience from 0 and didn't pull them from somewhere else... So ... I do love Tapas. I regularly boost new creators to the platform and try to share the love and success around as much as I possibly can, but I also often feel pressure to qualify my place in spaces here because apparently going 'Premium' meant that I'm no longer allowed to have an opinion - even when it affects F2R/UI/etc.

When it comes to the new UI and visibility, I found things are down across the board right now - but this make change once readers have got used to the new site. I'm going to wait a few weeks and make a real judgement about visibility.

travelercomic 2020-03-06 23:58:13 UTC #12

You belong here. Don't let anyone tell you any different just because you have a premium comic. I absolutely can't stand this mentality of not being welcomed based on your level of popularity. The forums are for all tapas users. It'd be one thing if you were going around rubbing it in people's noses but I haven't seen anything like that from you.

KRWright 2020-03-07 00:00:46 UTC #13

I think some people just see even mentioning Premium, or mentioning things like sub counts as 'rubbing it in', when usually I'm just using it to qualify what I'm saying. It's definitely never my intention, but I can't control how people read my tone?

But thank you for the rest of it

travelercomic 2020-03-07 00:05:43 UTC #14

I feel that. I mentioned earlier how I had someone who admitted jealousy in my comic and so called "popularity" (600 is certainly not popular and we're not even at 2k subs yet which is when I plan to try and pitch my own comic for premium).
They were being demeaning to me and my work and I had the gall to tell them in response "hey it's okay if you don't like the comic because 600 other people seem to like it just fine" and that was me "rubbing it in" when it was in response to them giving nonconstructive criticism that they later admitted to being false just to try and get at me.

So I definitely understand where you're coming from. I'm sure there might be some people who think I'm going to brag or rub it in when I say what my sub count is currently at but like... just cause you think that's popular doesn't mean it actually is lol

KRWright 2020-03-07 00:10:21 UTC #15

This. The struggle of getting to a relative 'mid-tier' as well is very real. Too popular for sympathy or being a hidden gem, too small to actually reap the benefits of being at the top of everything and pulling engagement constantly. Everything becomes a grind at that point haha

joannekwan 2020-03-07 00:24:00 UTC #16

Haha I feel this so hard being in the mid-tier!

Especially when it comes to the 'recommend such and such' threads. And everyone lists really small titles, or extremely popular ones. And I'm here holding on to a shred of hope that someone would recommend mine too. I've had a couple instances where people have linked my series, and I LOVE them for that, but it's disappointing when it's just a very small percentage of the time.

travelercomic 2020-03-07 00:30:43 UTC #17

We all hope for the day someone takes time out of their schedule to try and get other people to look at what you've made. It's such a nice feeling.

ratique 2020-03-07 00:32:53 UTC #18

This can't be understated. The most successful artists on the site are often highly active in communities outside of Tapas, produce quality work and understand their audience. A Tapas feature can only do so much, or can, in some cases, actually backfire.

I remember quite vividly that my old comic was featured once or twice in the daily snack or 'New and Noteworthy', and while the bump was nice, it was often followed with by weeks of loosing subscribers that realized they were actually not as interested as they thought.

Nowadays I put the blame on this myself - If I had created a better product, they may have stayed. It's not Tapas' fault that I was growing slowly, nor the readers - they all gave me chances. It was my own lack as a creator.

It is very disheartening to see other creators regularly post "I will never pay for premium because I like none of them." while some of the same creators supported my previous work that was provided for free.

Since my community isn't outright supportive, I have built somewhat close relationships (As close as they can be online) with other premium creators instead.

Others I try to follow, pay for their content and leave a comment whenever I can. So many of us are female comic creators who would have no chance in the traditional comic industry. Webcomics, and with that Tapas, have provided us with an outlet instead.

When other users and readers complain about the fact that our comics are hidden behind a paywall I would like to refer to the high workload premium creators put onto themselves. A full chapter on a weekly or biweekly upload schedule, and that for months or years. If you're not a highly successful creator, the pay you will receive from people buying your comic is also something I would consider peanuts, and I can make what my comic pays me here in a month just in a few hours worth of freelance work. Yet I'm still here (you may call me an idiot).

So if you see a premium comic with a high subscriber count, feel free to take a look at the actual views on their more recent episodes and then feel free to do the math on what that may turn into. Views are generally higher than the number of 'unlocks' a comic receives, so you can reduce the number by about 20%. Then remember the fees and Tapas shares and suddenly you realize that your comic with a few hundred subscribers may actually outperform many premium comics regularly and you made more money than the artist on your weekend job.

You are an insanely successful artist with readers who have been with you for years. You wouldn't be as successful as you are if nobody would share your work online - even if you don't see it in the forums! It's really easy to forget, but here you go: You're awesome!

BobbyjoeX 2020-03-07 00:46:03 UTC #19

i know the feel, i'm also struggling with this but its more i plan to network and imy mind goes blank and i don't know where to look

vothnthorvaldson 2020-03-07 00:54:11 UTC #20

I don't mind super much about visibility of Premium vs non-Premium, but I mind a lot about the (non)-visibility issue due to the horrid search and debatable sorting options.
This is really problematic for me as a reader, so I imagine that does not help my comic to be seen either.

Just now, I checked the app and the mobile site (I can't check the full site right now); and could not read a few comic/novels I wanted to read. Why? The "fresh" section of the corresponding categories is limited to the 20-30 last works updated (or maybe corresponding to a small timeframe?), with no way to go back to works updated just a little before. So, if I don't read every day... well, all these stories are not read, liked or commented on by me. I can't remember all titles and search them individually. Subscribing to everything is not possible (too many notifications), and there is not 'read later' list.
In the end, I read considerably less things on Tapas simply because I can't find them. At least before, the issue was only with the app. Now... well, for now the mobile website is as bad.

TAMAnnoying 2020-03-07 00:58:09 UTC #21

This is pretty much my issue- I don’t care too much about becoming bit time as much as I care about the readers I already have, problem is everyone hates this update to the UI so much I’m honestly afraid of loosing the readers I do have. I like my readers, I’d rather not see them go cause they’re annoyed with the website now, I’ve seen this happen years and years ago with a site no one remembers called Drunk Duck.

carloswebcomic 2020-03-07 00:58:20 UTC #22

Okay, I could be wrong but I do feel that the front page IS important. Before, you at least got some visibility when you updated. You may be there for a bit, but you were visible.
Maybe it won't set your stats on fire, but you will be exposed and judged on your own merits and not whether you signed a contract or made it to the staff pick.

Let's take Smack Jeeves' new design for example.
I started posting there just before the site's redesign.
My comic is not great, but every time I updated, I managed to grab a couple of subs here and there.
Once the site was redesigned, they removed the recently updated section and front page visibility was gone.
And that was the end of that. No new subs, no new readers. The comic simply disappeared.

Again, I could be wrong, but improving the search and tags doesn't inspire a lot of hope. How many people go beyond what's in the front page?

It's not so much the number of comics that makes it hard to be noticed.
Well, okay, it does play some part, but what's really fucking everything up it's the way we are posting comics.
We no longer have our own sites. We cannot link our friends. Promoting comics has degenerated to the endless "Post your comic with under XX subs!" threads in the forum.
When you go to someone's comic, the only links readers see is what the host wants them to see. Premium and popular comics.
It's self feeding cycle that screws over the smaller comics.
And no, you cannot go back to hosting your own site because corporate style hosts have cornered the market. You could not survive with your own website anymore. You'll never get the traffic now when Tapas and Webtoon are so convenient for readers.

Sure, there are 70,000 comics and you cannot put them all in the front page, but at least the recently updated section provided some measure of exposure rewarding those who actually update their comics.

Let me make one thing clear. I'm not saying this because I think I've been cheated of greatness or anything.
I'm well aware that my comic is mediocre at best and that the only reason I got a substantial number of readers is because I got spotlighted years ago.
But I see so many comics which are pretty good with absolutely fuck all audience, buried out of view. And it will remain that way because they get no visibility.
This hurts webcomics in general. It forces creators to either create the content that makes the front page or face obscurity.

This is just the way I see it though and it's possibly influenced by my rather grim view of reality.

joannekwan 2020-03-07 01:18:11 UTC #23

I think it's important to note that this parallels that why is this so underrated thread and I really liked Jenny-Toons' response there when it pertains to online comics: That people have forgotten how to spread the word on things and some are under the impression that other people will spread it.

For example False Knees, the comics with the birds
They only have 1,900 subs on Tapas, but their comics are everywhere else on the internet to the point that they become memes.

And then there are creators like Dzuban, who as far as I know only has their comic on Tapas

It's relatively new having just started in 2018. It only has 1,400 subs which is not a lot compared to their 8700 followers on instagram, but they have 246 Patrons.

Series like these may not get great visibility here, but somehow they find a path to it somewhere else.

DokiDokiTsuna 2020-03-07 01:21:49 UTC #24

I may be in the minority here, but couldn't that be part of the reason people complain...?

I mean, it doesn't have to be an either/or scenario; not everyone who's just not into Premium comics shares the mindset of the bratty jealous haters. For instance, here: I could see Premium status receiving more public support if it actually improved the lives of the artists by a measurable degree.
But like you said; it's just a couple years of elevated(?) status that both stresses people out and barely pays. A lot of people simply couldn't fit this "honor" into their schedule, even if they were presented with it today (me included). That doesn't really help people's cynical attitude about the whole racket.

Also, ^this: I can see how it's hard to hear, but I really think it's less of a personal insult and more of a simple cost-benefit analysis.

People will not pay for something they don't want, no matter how hard anyone worked on it. And if "Premium comics" as a whole is something most fellow creators don't see as worth their money, it's probably not the fault of the individual comic creators in that group.
It's mostly the fault of the people who put that group together in the first place, who decided it was fine if 75% of them were different mutations of the same set of tropes. You may well be one of the 25% that they might think was worth the money, but that 75% that they don't like is still gonna put them off-- it's only natural.

It's like when people complain about DeviantArt: around the internet, the phrase "Deviantart artist" is regularly used as an insult. But as a member of dA, I don't really see it as an insult to me personally, nor do I feel particularly 'unwelcome' when people I know use it. I just take it to mean that DeviantArt as a whole has its own reputation that's outside of my control. It's just a platform, not an extension of my identity.

If they're interested to know about dA artists that are actually decent human beings, I'll be glad to recommend some from my watchlist. But if they just don't want to go anywhere near all the craziness and fetish art going around in some circles, it's not my place to force them to.

carloswebcomic 2020-03-07 01:36:36 UTC #25

Yeah, but that's like winning the Lottery, isn't it?
It also helps that the artist is insanely good.

But not everyone can be a savant. Not everyone has interpersonal skills to build an audience on social media. Some people have mental illnesses, like me, which makes it hard to market themselves. That doesn't mean that they should get no exposure and deserve to be hidden away.

I do feel that a bit of help from Tapas would go a long way to not only bring visibility to smaller creators, but it would also show general audiences that there's far more diversity in comics than just what's shown on the front page.
It could even increase the readership base as a whole.