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Mar 2021

I am sure this is how some creators feel right now :upside_down:


Another long rant, I deeply apologize

I am fully aware of that sentiment. Deep inside their hearts, there must be even a trickle of care a creator has for their own creation. Some even love it like their own child and understandably wish the best for it. It is very natural wanting your brain (not human) children to be acknowledged, respected, popular, and profitable.

I am envy itself in flesh and bones, seeing other people's (who I don't care about) success make me burn like a demon being boiled in Jesus' blood. It is a known, undeniable fact that this world is unfair. That you can work as hard as you can to no avail. That you can make your series as best as you can with your utmost care and effort, yet it can still flop while another series you consider "unworthy" thrives like it's mocking you. It is normal to feel that it is unfair, it is normal to say that it is unfair, because it fucking is.

What cross me is when people is not merely voicing their frustration, but actively implying that they deserve to be treated better because they're better than everyone. It is all selfish "me, me, and me!" not "I wish my condition can improve."

I agree some premium series are questionable shit, I agree some community series are amateur garbage. However, generalising them all as unworthy while thinking your series should be put on the pedestal, and even going against an idea that might open the possibility of success for many creators because you don't want to be lumped with series you look down at is far over the line. As much as I have been labelled am a malicious and mean-spirited person here, as much as I realize that my series itself is flawed, it is not acceptable.

I appreciate that you (in general) work hard, but I would appreciate it of you acknowledge that it's not only you who work hard. I applaud that you (in general) make a quality series with so much thought put into it, but it's not only you who do so, and there are naturally those who do better than you but receive less. I understand that numbers and validation can blind your vision, and make you addicted to the point you lose your confidence without it (me). I know some people are neurodiverse that they struggle with empathy (me).

However, such way of thinking will only halt your growth and alienate you. People won't like associating with people who are ungrateful and put others down, as isn't art world is about networking? People won't like to support those who always think they deserve more. Plus, you can't see your own flaws and improve where you are deafened by your own pride or personal echo chambers. Have some humility in yourself and your work instead of blind pride, that way you can assess your creation better. To say the most clichéd shit ever: aren't we creating, because we love it? Not because of pride, not because of proving that we are better than others.

Sorry, who is saying that they need to be treated better than anyone else and blaming premium comics?

Who are you directing this to?

Not you for sure, "Those people" in my previous rant or everyone who think so which is not an individual.

I am sorry if you feel offended. Did I accidentally reply to you (oops.)? Because I accidentally did so and changed it, so hopefully it is resolved.

It is actually more like "Well Carlos said that, but anyway. . . ." Which I think it is unfair to make it a reply for you.

Fair enough! No worries.

People need to be aware that success is not a given either.

I made this, maybe it could help at some point. At least it is a little different than the many spams, this has some rules to help the hard work.

Aaaaaand now there are like ten promo threads at the top of the forum. XD

Welcome to the new normal!
It's getting to the point where people need to post on every promo thread because there are so many of them that they get lost among the other ones.

Purge, we should purge them :sip: nothing new under the Moon...

Step 1: Click here:

Step 2: Select "muted"

And here I was thinking that I did a positive thing to help out the veterans and hard workers to have a promotion thread for us, but all I did was adding some swam....
:confused:

I think your idea of a targeted thread is good.
Too many sporadic threads to promo comics that are all over the place..
Right now it's total chaos. I think some order and structure is what is needed.

Is it possible to have a limit of how many post you can reply to or create in one category?

Personally I don't really know what to think because I don't usually look at the first page of Tapas, but after looking at the first page for a long time (like a year and a half?)
I actually find it more difficult to find small or new authors (those with less than 1000 subs).

But from my little experience, I am very grateful to Tapas, it is thanks to them that I was able to share my comics, and it is also thanks to them that I wanted it to be my job.
Tapas allowed me at the time (at the end of 2018) to express myself when why I was nobody and my drawings were really really horrible ( don't you dare judge i just started drawing 🤣)

I also wanted to say that even if there are people who are there for premium comics, a good number are there for free to read and discover hidden talents. (If some people are interested in my bookstore I have a lot of little authors that I find incredible) I think there will always be people for these little budding authors .

You appear to believe that the people here seeking greater visibility for indie comics are doing so because they are proud and obnoxious, and envious of premium series.
This is wildly incorrect, to the point that is borderline offensive, and demonstrates that you have not been reading the conversation.
You have not been labelled as malicious or mean spirited, you have simply misunderstood.

Yes, we all create because we love to, but it is very rare that that be a person's only goal. For example, a closeted LGBT person creating a comic anonymously in order to explore their identity online, where they would be unsafe to do so irl would probably very much benefit from a regular cycle of one or two new followers every few months who comment semi-regularly.

This is a fair and reasonable expectation, and it should be simple enough to achieve on Tapas without frustrating people on the forum, or risking discovery by publicising widely and loudly on the larger social media sites.
I've already made a case for a relatively low-effort, low-maintenance solution that would address this issue.

Nice try Jens.

Let me show you how’s it done:

If I might speak up on behalf of "Those People" being called out...

I want to be very clear here. I don't think I'm intrinsically better or more worthy than any other person here. I know we're all working hard. I have no intention of insulting anyone by pointing out a simple thing which is that most of "those people" (ie. people who believe that if Tapas is to promote community works more, there would need to be means to make sure the content getting seen was fairly professional looking) are in our thirties with professional experience and/or training. It's not a difference of being a better person or more determined to succeed or more talented (talent is a myth), it's just having been at it longer and so having knowledge, resources and time, which any of you can and will acquire if you just keep at it, I just happen to have been alive since the mid 80's and making webcomics for going on twenty years so my career is further along. Assuming that this ire is primarily aimed at Joanne and I, I should flag the fact that both of us are clearly keen to use our experience and the knowledge we have gained to help others. It's practically a forum meme that if somebody needs advice or critique I'll turn up, and I'm always seeing Joanne giving out great advice on threads. I genuinely do want every single one of you to succeed in your endeavours, and I don't think anyone should feel bitter or ashamed about not being there just yet, or for being a hobbyist who makes comics for fun without compromising their artistic vision to make it marketable.

The reason I'm saying that the changes should be ones that help high performing works with a high level of polish get organic visibility isn't because I'm like "ONLY I MAY SUCCEED" like I'm the villainess queen or something; it's because Tapas is a business and anything we pitch needs to be shown to be a worthwhile financial investment for them to consider it.

Tapas tried community picks... and I heard through some contacts that the reason we lost community picks was because a number of very unpolished works got put on the front page (because the community staff did take the very well-meaning, fair and open-hearted approach of putting pretty much everything the community suggested with little to no vetting), which resulted in app users losing faith in the quality of the recommendations in that section (which also corroborates with reports I have from friends that the later a week of Community picks you were in, regardless of how nice a cover you had, the lower the overall sub gain was) and stopped clicking works in that section. So obviously after that, Tapas are a bit scared to give that valuable front page real estate to anything that isn't thoroughly vetted for quality or directly picked by the staff who can curate the selection based on it fitting in with the front page.

If we are to sell the idea to Tapas that it's worth making more room for community comics or tweaking algorithms or the UI so that community comics get seen more, we have to sell community comics as an investment worth betting their money (in this case, the loss of revenue from giving up space that could be given to more immediately profitable premium comics) on for a return. If people can see more free comics, it means they're seeing fewer paid comics, so it is vital to try to explain it to Tapas in terms that these free comics can become paid comics if you give them opportunities to build an audience, can earn significant ad revenue or donation money, or could be the next Tapas Media TV adaptation. In other words, we can't sell it as "you should show people my comic because I'm a nice person and I worked really hard on it!" even if that is a lovely sentiment, we have to sell it as "give these comics a chance for the best performers to rise to the top, one of them might be the next Moonshine or Heartstopper." To us artists, our comics are works of art dear to our hearts and labours of love, but to Tapas, they are products on a shop shelf, and you might be the kind of admirable person who doesn't judge a book by its cover, but most app users aren't, no matter how much we wish that'd change, and they're the ones who are bringing the money.

I use my own comic as an example not because I think I'm better than anyone, but because it's an easy example I have stats for that back up the theory that it's under-performing and could grow more under a system where comics can gain more organic visibility, and that based on its earnings, it's worth investing in for potential financial returns.
I know Errant inside and out. I know all the stats for it. I know how much it has earned, I know how it performs, I know my social media strategy, like how I've taken part in every Tapastry event and had the misfortune to never have them share my work (I would really like to know if this is just bad luck or being in the wrong timezone or if somebody at Tapastry doesn't like me for some reason. If somebody on the staff doesn't like me, can we please just talk about our feelings in DMs and straighten things out? Sometimes I upset people without meaning to because I'm autistic and can be overly honest and blunt or misjudging what's appropriate tone for a situation, so I have concerns...) and since it has been featured before on the front page a few times I can safely hold it up to Tapas and say "look, you've featured this before, right? You feel like this is polished enough to be on the front page, So it wouldn't be so awful if stuff like this turned up on the front page or in a trending list on a good update day, or if it was easier to find content like this." I don't even think my comic would benefit the most from the changes I'm suggesting because it's an odd comic in a less popular genre, the biggest gains would likely be for comics like The Princess Beast, Hollow and the like; comics that have over a thousand followers and which fit the Tapas aesthetic and audience pretty well, but seem to not be climbing up into those 10s of Ks like comics of comparable quality and audience appeal used to a couple of years ago.

Honestly this spiteful attitude some people have of "WELL. If MY community comic can't get seen and make money with or without changes to the site, I don't see the point! Especially if it benefits that uppity cow Darth Mongoose who thinks she's better than me!" is pretty unhelpful. If we convince Tapas to improve organic visibility by selling the benefits of investing in community comics, it will benefit the majority of community creators. Some of you it may not benefit immediately if you still need to build up your polish or marketing game, or your product doesn't suit the platform, but some day, maybe not so far off, your work will reach a professional level of polish or you'll hit on a great premise or capture the zeitgeist and you'll get a few hundred subs and then find yourself stuck in the donut hole like I currently am, popular enough that people tell you on the forums you're a "big creator" and not allowed to complain about popularity or visibility, but nowhere near popular enough to make viable money from the work you're making and unable to grow the audience fast enough for that to look probable any time soon.
What I'm trying to convince Tapas to do is to give us a ladder to climb so that higher performing community comics can viably turn into premium or "wait for free" comics. Some of you may not be tall enough to reach that ladder just yet, but when you are (when, not if, and I'm always happy to give advice to help you get there), you'll need it. Overall it would ultimately benefit all of you though, because if a polished community comic jumps into premium, it both proves that they can be a worthwhile investment overall, encouraging Tapas to foster community comics growth with resources, promotion and tutorials and means that person is no longer competing with smaller comics for eyeballs in smaller promotion events, which means more attention for everyone.

Likewise. This is why I have been proposing an 'Undiscovered' tab, that need not be on the front page.

Its existence alone would draw people to it on account of it showing a very different selection of pseudo-curated comics that wouldn't appear under any other heading. On account of people being drawn to it it would trigger a distribution of attention that would immediately appear 'predictive' - things that do well under 'Undiscovered' would very likely go on to do well in other, more conventional places soon after.
This combined with the ability for whoever controls the Undiscovered algorithm to forecast what is due to appear on it in advance would make it an invaluable tool.

It makes sense to want a following, but engagement is not a guarantee, because said engagement is done by people who follow content as a choice and not as an obligation. If they like a story is up to them.

Is fair to ask for visibility, but that in itself will not guarantee results.

I wanna be fair with you darth, you’re stats are normally decently cited but this time you’ve irked me a bit

I noticed you used your “total revenue” which includes ink gifted to you. Now I hate to be a negative Nancy but tapas really dosn’t and shouldn’t care about your ink revenue, especially when inksgiving is on the table.

There’s plenty of people I know who can make 20 to 50$ in ink revenue because they’re well known in the >creator< community. So they can make a lot of money during inksgiving- problem is we also don’t know how much they are >spending< during inksgiving. As that event tends to be a give a little get a little, your more likely to spend more money on inksgiving then you receive unless your already in the 2000 sub tier.

Now for an example I’m gonna use my own stats here

My total revenue is 59.78$

Not anything compared to your 200$ but as a hobbyist who dose this for herself and makes most of her money through nsfw commissions- I’m pretty proud of it. But now let’s look at my AD revenue

$5.58

Oof a much smaller amount. Yet this is the amount tapas should be looking at, because this is the amount that matters. Tapas is not getting payed by you through Patreon. YouTube dose not boost the people who have the most patreons on their page- they boost the people who have the most >veiws< and make the most >ad revenue< for them. Why? Because those are the people who are actually paying YouTube. They, like tapas needs to make their investors happy. This is just how companies work. Unless you’re getting a lot of Veiw (not audience >views< ) and these people are not willing to turn off their ad blockers for you, then these platforms really don’t have a need to invest in you. It’s sad but it’s what business is.

I agree that we’re loosing a lot of ground with visibility for the little guy but when you put down “fresh” and “community picks” because one or two of the entires are not “polished” then it’s your own loss

The original one punch man is not a “polished” comic. And look where it is now. So it’s really a self fufilling proficiency that were working with. Either you allow some unpolished things to seep through so everyone can get in, or you start having vip codes.

The problem I’m seeing is that there is still a ladder.... but it’s a ladder that can only be climded if your willing to play the game. I have seen PLENTY of artist and creators that made comics years ago with under 100 subs that now make comics with over 10000 subs. You wanna know what happen? They didn’t get more “polished” they just went to the romance and BL genre. Cause that’s where the money and veiws are.

As an authors of Bl genre i 'm saying that , please don't change your story to Bl or romance if that's not what you like to draw it's surely reflect on your art and story!