Web Toons or Tap for Skeeters?

[joevallen3]

Quick question (or not-so-quick) and I've read a bunch of reviews so far.

Tap seems to be having difficulty with setting up their tipping system. We're trying to set up our series to be in the best position possible.
I think Tap is too busy to activate our tipping feature (which would be huge right now because our friends would at least be tipping us already) I sent multiple emails and never heard anything (other than a short forum reply telling me where to email) back so that was my first taste here with creator support which made me feel like I didn't matter to them. Not the best start but in our 3 weeks, our readership seems to be expanding with every episode so I have to figure this out before I get us stuck in the wrong format on the wrong site for us with confused subscribers.
Anyway, I hear the money is excellent on Webtoons but it is mainly catered to a Korean audience and there are more trolls over there supposedly. Speaking with a few other creators here that are a lil' frustrated right now, it seems like that might be the answer to our financial hopes (at the very least we can pair our webtoons with a patreon account right now and have friends and family begin supporting the project?)
It's frustrating because Tap is literally keeping us from earning on our own merits and marketing now and I primarily wanted to be available for an American audience. I also don't like the idea of someone deciding if I'm worthy to accept my own tips or having to wait until they get around to me to activate our account on here or if I feel like I'm bothering them just to activate this feature. Creator support is something I definitely look for in a hosting site (I have 3 IPs in production now). We have 3 months of completed Episodes on standby and the Skeeters really evolve quite a bit in the next handful of episodes so I really want to figure this out before we get to our best stuff (and it's wasted building an audience for free) I have been asked several times now how our friends could support Skeeters and aside from just mailing me money (which I would never accept) you currently can't.

So, my question is: Is Tap right for Skeeters or should myself and my other creator friends with the same issues check out webtoons?
I love the community on here and we spent some effort setting this up. I trust your opinions but we don't want to create an entire series and funnel our own built-up fan base here to help tap's ad revenue out for free...and they can keep their ad revenue pennies. I'm just interested in money from our fans but I need to be on a site that allows me to make my own money.....and at least answers me when I shoot them an email. I think that's very reasonable considering I won't cost them a dime because only the top comics get support. Really all I was asking was for my own tips so I could go build my comic on my own merits. I don't need anything from tap but to get out of my way and allow our fans to support us right from the start. I don't expect their support in marketing or promotion as it's pretty clear only top creators get that (which is fine by me) but I do expect them to allow me to grow my series with all the tools I'll need to do it on my own.

I'm also writing an article about web comic hosting for a freelance gig so I'm starting to collect opinions and info for the piece. I'm also trying to figure out the future for our series here too so this is a serious question guys..and I'm tired of explaining to my poor illustrator that I haven't heard back still from support. Whatchu guys think?

So, should we stay or should we go?
Thanks guys.

www.tapastic.com/series/skeeters

[Kayke]

Okay, there's a lot to talk about here, but I'll do my best to let you know my experience with both sites.

So, On Line Webtoon, there is an option to become a premium artist and get paid directly for your work, but only a really small percentage of the artists on there receive that kind of payment. If you do not have a contract with them and are just signing up for the site you'll be under the "discover" section. The discover section lets you earn money in two ways. You can link your Patreon so that readers can easily find you with a link that looks like this... (and actually seems to be glitching right now because those aren't the correct numbers for my series but I digress)

Or, if you get enough action on your comic Line will become a patron directly and donate accordingly so long as you keep your subscribers and page views up to the right levels

So you need a minimum of either [3K followers and 10k US Page Views per Update] or [5k followers and 5k US Page Views per Update] for them to start giving you $100 per month.

Meanwhile on Tap, it sounds like you already know about tipping and Ad Rev. But you can also add a Patreon link to your comic page in a similar fashion to the one on Line Webtoon by going into your series Dashboard>Series>Edit>Details.

It will appear as an image next to your comments section.

To the best of my knowledge can post your comic on both without any legal issues, even if you get to the point where Line is supporting you on Patreon. I think things only become exclusive if you become premium content and sign a contract with them. You don't even really have to worry about this splitting your audience because in my experience it doesn't seem like many (non-creator) readers use both sites.

EDIT:
I also think it's a little weird to say Tapastic is stopping you from earning your own money? They are doing their best to provide multiple ways for artists to earn at least some cash from their comics. In the past most comic hosting sites didn't give people any way to earn money from their comics because they were providing a free service of hosting the comics. As an artist with my own personal comic site as well, I have definitely made more money through Tapastic's Ad Revenue program than I do having ads on my own site. The ads on my own site don't even pay for the web hosting fees to be honest.

[Evan]

Tapas is currently being overwhelmed with tipping requests so it's possible that's why your tipping feature hasn't been activated yet. Tipping is also only available via the Tapas app and will only be activated if you have ad revenue turned on for the Tapastic site.

Webtoons is partnered with Patreon, but you obviously need a Patreon account, which should be easy to set up, and patreon is for long term funding. While Webtoons, does support its creators through Patreon you need at least 3K subs, 5K page views, post at least twice a month, and have at least 5K subscribers or 10K page views to actually get Webtoons to pledge any money.

But you don't have to abandon one or the other. You can post on both sites as long as you don't become a featured artist on Webtoons. Tapastic has a great community and provides support through ad revenue and tipping on the mobile app. Webtoons is known to have a slightly worse community and only provides support through Patreon and only support the most popular of comics. It's really up to you, but I'd say you should do Webtoons and Tapastic.

[shazzbaa]

Tapastic staff definitely has issues with communication, in my experience. They are doing some really cool things, and they have responded to problems in the past, but they seem to have a very hard time making users feel like their concerns are being heard, and their priorities can be inscrutable. There are probably a lot of reasons for this, and some of them are very understandable, but the end result is that yeah, communication is ABSOLUTELY Tapastic's weak point.

and they can keep their ad revenue pennies. I'm just interested in money from our fans but I need to be on a site that allows me to make my own money.....and at least answers me when I shoot them an email. [...] Really all I was asking was for my own tips so I could go build my comic on my own merits. I don't need anything from tap but to get out of my way and allow our fans to support us right from the start.

Tips often come from ads, though. The coolest thing about Tips is that readers can watch ads to "earn coins." That money that goes to creators is coming from the ads they watched, from companies that paid to get views for those ads.

If you don't want to worry about ads and really want Tapas to just "get out of the way" and let your readers support you, then get a patreon account! Get a ko-fi account! Those avenues to get support directly from your audience are already open to you!

But just know that anything you set up is gonna take time. I definitely understand being frustrated at not getting an email back or an of estimation of how long this will take. But the idea that after three weeks you should be all set up and earning cash doesn't really isn't the norm in webcomics... anywhere you go you're gonna have to get a feel for it, figure out if it's working for you, take time to get set up, take time to build your audience, and then reach out to explore other avenues the same way so you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. Don't feel rushed, and don't feel like you're stuck in only one place, or like you'll get stuck in a place that isn't working for you. Everyone in this field is always feeling out new options and trying new things. It's okay to take your time to determine if the community of Tapastic is worth it to you. ;u;

[UzukiCheverie]

Okay, I think I'm going to be the one to sort of pop the bubble here. I hate to be "that guy"... but I sorta love it too.

I checked out your comic, and right now you have 16 subscribers. I'm sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, in a world with thousands upon THOUSAND of webcomics, popular and not, saying that your readership is "rapidly increasing over the course of 3 weeks" when it seems to only be at 16 subs is... not profitable. Not in the slightest.

Let me lay it out for you - you will not make an actual profit with the Tapas Tipping program, Ad Revenue, Patreon, or LINE until you break the 1k mark at the bare bones minimum (unless you have a whole lot of friends who are willing to fund you). Even then, your profits will be miniscule. I'm talking $1 every like, 6,000 views (that's about where Ad Revenue's CPM is right now on Tapastic).

I'm at 3.3k right now and you know how much I make? A couple bucks a month through tipping and even less through Ad Revenue. The most I make right now is about $50 on Patreon, and that's after 2 years of updating 4 volumes of content and counting, typically updating 15 pages a week in increments of 3 episodes (Monday, Wednesday, Friday). I'm not bragging, I'm just setting a bar here ... and there are creators who are running multiple series at once right now.

You have 16 subscribers and three episodes. As far as I'm concerned, you're in no position right now to be demanding for "your money" from a free hosting website that is already amazing for offering as many financial options as possible, even if the amounts may only be miniscule for most at best. This is why serious webcomic creators who do this for a living make merchandise, sell physical copies, attend conventions, sell digital E-books, and network the crap out of their stuff. That's all on top of updating constantly with quality content for years, and years, and years. And believe it or not, there are a lot of creators already doing these things but also have to work a full-time job because they still aren't making a living. I don't even know if Tapastic activates Ad Revenue/tipping for series that are as new as yours... in the past they had a prerequisite where you needed at least 500 subs and had to update regularly.

If you're aiming to make a living off this, you're going at it all wrong. Expecting to be making tons of money right off the bat and thinking that your current state is enough to deserve immediate financial gain is just... unrealistic. It might be super disappointing to hear, but I've had to tell this to a bunch of webcomic creators before who thought they'd be making it big (some who even outright quit their jobs thinking it would get them a salary) so you're not the only one I've seen come in here and expect these things.

This is what you should be focusing on right now:

• Post to LINE and Tapastic. Two hosts are better than one when you're still new, and seeing as you're still very new, you will need all the views you can get (if making money off your work is your endgame.)

• Update consistently. Once a week, twice a week, whatever your schedule is, stick to it. And if you have to skip and update, let your readers know.

• Be a voice in the community. Don't just be that random webcomic creator, get to know people, network your work and yourself.

• Be patient. There are people I know who've been working on their comics for a decade and still struggle to make a living off their work. Yeah, some people get "lucky" but depending on this chance is like depending on the lottery to get you out of poverty.

• You get back what you put in. If you're only updating once a week without any engaging with your readers/fellow creators, networking, or anything that would create a presence for yourself, you're not really gonna get much back (unless you get lucky, but see the above point).

• Most of all, be patient.

I'm on my lunch break so I have to go back to work right now, but please consider what I said. You're just not in a position right now where you have to "choose" - both will work just fine for you while you're just starting out. Good luck

[joevallen3]

Thank you and this isn't my only project is what I meant and of course we are just starting. I said "expanding with each episode" also drawing from my audience has expended with each page release of Jesus and Frankenstein. so I sort of meant in my collective experience. I also was getting at us being in the very beginning of Skeeters so the point I was poorly getting at was that I dont want to set up shop in the wrong place was all. You've given me a ton to chew on though so thank you!

[joevallen3]

Also, I absolutely would be getting tips right now if the feature was activated from friends family, and those who are already supporting my other projects.I don't need large numbers to get the ball rolling because I already have a nucleus attached to the other stuff that I would funnel over to this. My followers are not represented by tap but rather from my blog, my Graphic Novel, my short stories and freelance work. I have much more people with me than I let on with any single project. I am funneling people here slowly but I was cautious on pulling the trigger on our mailing list with an announcement until I was sure or the project matched my other. That does take time. What doesn't is learning about hosting sites and informing myself so thank you so much for the info but Skeeters isn't my only round in the chamber currently.

[joevallen3]

I have a patreon account for my graphic novel and it's been great so far. Our twitch stream is cool too as marketing help. I was mainly interested in putting Skeeters on Tap because I have multiple properties and I was testing this out. I think I'm gonna upload on toons too to compare. If needed, I'll just promote my toon page. I just thought webtoons made you only post there. Wasn't sure on that. Thank you for your feedback!

[joevallen3]

awesome and thanks! I do have a patreon for one of my other projects and we love it so far. I appreciate your input!

[joevallen3]

In case you missed the line near it, what I meant was, my family, friends and supporters of my other projects can't tip me right now so yes, Tap is keeping from making whatever money (even if it's a small sum) that I would have already made from that. My urgency is that I want to have my accounts fully set up with every feature I'll be relying on so I can make the best decisions for my projects and artists. Ya dig?

[joevallen3]

awesome information and perspective though! thanks for taking the time.

[joevallen3]

If nothing else, the Forums here are a major selling point for Tap. This is the best Creator Support I've gotten yet. Thanks guys.

[Marvin]

I absolutely would be getting tips right now if the feature was activated from friends family

If you already have people ready to support you, why don't you direct them to your patreon or create a ko-fi ? Those are great ways to get them to support you financially without them mailing you money. If they do so through the tipping program, you'll either have to ask them to watch a ton of video ads or to buy tapas coins which isn't gonna be very profitable for you since Apple takes a 30% fee (+ Tapastic takes 15%).

I agree with what everyone said, I personally publish my comic on both Tapastic and Webtoon and it enables me to reach 2 different set of readers. As for Webtoon, I also have two things to add :
- their special patreon pledge is only for a year
- if your serie is successful there and you end up getting an e-mail offering you a contract, just know that you'll have to produce one 20 000px long episode per week, which can be a lot of work depending on your comic's style.

Tapastic staff definitely has issues with communication, in my experience.

While I agree with that, I really think they're a small team and already do a lot... They often answer in the forum if you use their name, do some Q&A livestreams and now run a podcast with some up to date news...

I'm sure it wasn't your intention but your message sounded a bit aggressive ("which made me feel like I didn't matter to them"... "Tap is literally keeping us from earning on our own merits"... "someone deciding if I'm worthy to accept my own tips or having to wait"... "I don't need anything from tap but to get out of my way"...) and disrespectful to the Tapas staff who are really doing as much as they can.

Michael has to activate the tipping feature on each account one by one, he receives hundreds of emails each week from people who want to get the feature so please be patient, he probably hasn't even seen your "multiple emails" and doesn't even know you exist yet.

Even though I've gotten pretty attached to this website and community and don't really like people bowling in expecting customer service as if they were in a high class hotel, what really got me pissed in your message is this :

it's wasted building an audience for free

No it's not. If you only want your reader's money, then you'll never get the hang of Tapastic, I'm sorry. You'll miss on a fantastic community where people who can't support you financially still do everything to give you feedback and love. Even if they never leave a comment, they're still individuals interest in what you create and that's already pretty valuable I think. And if you only want to think about how they could lead to your success, then at least consider the weight of their views, likes, comments and shares. Self publishing is entirely about your readers, don't forget it.

If I have ONE advice for you (though I second everything @UzukiCheverie said) it's this : your work and your readers come first. If you take really good care of them both, you'll find ways for money to follow. Please don't try to do it backwards, it rarely ends up the way you want...

ps : what's wrong with reaching non-American readers ? As long as they understand english, what's the point of publishing on Internet if not to rally readers from all over the world ?

[joevallen3]

Thanks Marvin! Great advice and yeah I will certainly set up a Patreon for Skeeters too. JUst trying different avenues with different projects. Skeeters got Tap to try out. I dont want people to be watching videos either and all that. I also heard about toons demanding work load too. I think a weekly post is safe now considering we have a couple months of episodes saved already. Appreciate your reply.

[Marvin]

I dont want people to be watching videos either and all that.

Then what do you expect from the tipping feature ? (colour me puzzled)

I don't think you should limit your series to only one platform. I remember the staff wildly encouraging creators here to spread their work as much as they could and it won't prevent you to see where your serie is getting the best results, believe me ! People don't really like to migrate from a platform to another so if your Tapastic subscribers want to see your other series, they'd probably rather have them handy here on Tapastic than head to webtoon for example.

[joevallen3]

I expect what I keep repeating. For my readers to be able to tip me? Like right now, if my aunt want to throw 20 bucks to the project, she could? So dont be confused anymore. And yes, I'm very aware of Patreon having my graphic novel, "The Adventures of Jesus and Frankenstein" on there now. I will certainly create one which webtoons supports so another pro for them.
I think posting on multiple sites is a great idea though and I appreciate your time but what I'm expecting to be clear again is for people who want to tip me to be able to? I know that sounds insane but that's all I wanted to know so I have clear answers to report back to my artist with because we're both confused.

[Kayke]

Your aunt would have to sign up Tapastic/download the app and either watch videos to earn coins or purchase coins using her phone.

[joevallen3]

purchasing coins is fine and watching videos is cool to give people another option. That's all fine. Except she can't....because I'm not activated. Thanks for your input though.

[joevallen3]

and it's only through the app? I didn't realize that.

[PotooGryphon]

For my readers to be able to tip me? Like right now, if my aunt want to throw 20 bucks to the project, she could?

You'd actually make more if your Aunt gives you the $20 through patreon or paypal or mail you the cash in a sweet holiday card. Honestly, the tipping feature works best for those that don't pay to get the Tapas coins and are willing to earn the coins through watching ads.

Ex. for $100.00 in the Tapas coin store a user can get 120,000 coins. However, 100 Tapas coins equals roughly $0.08. So with that rate, 120,000 Tapas coins equals roughly $96.00. However, since they're bought coins -30% goes toward app fees and -15% goes to Tapas for hosting/maintaining the feature, so you'd roughly get about $52.80 from that 120,000 Tapas coin tip that a user spent $100 to tip you with.

In conclusion you could of gotten $100 if they gave that to you through patreon or paypal or mailed in a sweet holiday card OR get about 55% of that $100 through the Tapas tipping feature...

There's no -30% app fee if a user earns their coins through watching ads so you'd instead get 85% of that if the user instead earned 120,000 tapas coins from watching ads.

For fun your $20 from your Aunt would equate back to you $11, if your Aunt buys $20 worth of Tapas coins from the app.