Webtoons drawn traditionally

[azuretouketsu]

A 72 Mustang isn’t “outdated”. It’s vintage, classic, even old. There’s a difference.

Outdated is, definitionally, obsolete. Why would someone ask you to clarify a pretty cut and dry term that can really only carry a negative connotation? When you say traditional artwork is outdated, you are calling traditional artwork obsolete. That’s insulting to people who embrace traditional art, and it’s not really for you to decide you weren’t insulting people when you were.

Now, maybe you feel your words are being misinterpreted, and you might not have intended to be insulting. In that case, the right move would be to apologize for your choice of wording and clarify. It was your decision to use that term, and it’s your responsibility to correct yourself if it isn’t what you meant to say.

[candiedcotton]

That is an insincere definition of the term. It also means 'no longer current'. So it isn't cut and dry like that, no.

Definition of OUTDATED

A '72 Mustang is outdated because it is no longer current.

I think it is up to the people making assumptions to not make assumptions and if they are perceiving something as possibly that awful, maybe actually give the other person the benefit of the doubt and ask them. I am not going to apologize for other people assuming something about me and my intentions, that's ludicrous.

[azuretouketsu]

Oxford English Dictionary, widely considered to be the standard, defines outdated as “no longer useful because of being old-fashioned.”

It’s more than reasonable to assume that’s what you meant. I’m telling you the polite thing to do in this situation would be to simply apologize and correct; nobody is saying you have to. But it informs people on your character as a person that you find it so difficult to do so.

[candiedcotton]

That's called cherry-picking.

I'm going to leave this conversation now, as I don't think it's going to go anywhere. It seems you are bound and determined to paint me in a bad light, and I'm simply not accepting it. I never proposed the ideology you're spinning, nor would I. To accept such would be an insult to my character in itself.

Have a good evening.

[DarkSena]

@candiedcotton @azuretouketsu It's fine, you two. Let's do not quarrel over a mere word right now.
Ever since I started drawing back in 2006 I was able to hear so much more things which were really bad, very widely exceeding the limits of politeness but this isn't the case here. The word outdated might be a really thin ice for some as we all are sensitive to some level, some might see it as hurtful and other as just a statement so let's leave it as that. No need to apologize to anyone for stating your own opinion I was the one to ask for

[azuretouketsu]

@candiedcotton You’re painting yourself in a bad light by blaming others for interpreting your words in an understandably poor light rather than simply correcting yourself. You would rather not be wrong than be courteous to others.

Incidentally, that kind of behavior reinforces the notion that you’re the sort of person who would call other people’s chosen medium obsolete. Just something to consider and grow on.

Have a good night.

[azuretouketsu]

@DarkSena sorry, wasn’t trying to create drama. Stuff like that just rubs me the wrong way.

[DarkSena]

It got a little bit heated here right now, haha. But I didn't want to make anyone hurt or upset over a topic I have opened. I mean I was the one to ask for the opinion of anyone. We have free speech and every person is unique to put us their own statement as long it's not a pure hate, which is course is never welcomed. I mean it's always better to clarify in order to clear up the air because some people might understand the way you are saying things differently than others, as long as nobody does attack anybody it's alright. I'm glad that so many have decided to join my topic, it's been for a long time on my mind and I felt an urge to discuss it with somebody.

[Kaisei]

Part of the issue is that the end product is a webtoon on the internet (the digital realm). Webcomics are read relatively quickly, so readers may not appreciate all the details in your work. If you were selling art prints, your audience would invest more time viewing each piece.

That said, paying to refill markers is a relatively small investment for art. Obviously if you don't have the money, you don't. However, there are other crafts that use bulky equipment that costs thousands of dollars. Ultimately, you need to decide for yourself if the enjoyment you get out of drawing traditionally is worth the price of refilling markers now and then. If it is, set aside a monthly budget for art supplies.

[UrMom]

@Nugtown Yes! Gosh, I remember doing so much drawing to get my hand trained to do linework. I've never been able to do clean contours due to shaky hand issues, but over time I learned techniques to work around it for smooth inks.

I kind of feel it's similar to social anxiety, at least the part of that anxiety relating to messing up. I used to be terrified of inking because of my shaky hands, never wanted to ink because I worked so hard on the sketch. It takes a lot of brain training and screwing up drawings to become desensitized to it. Nowadays I tackle drawings with a "If I mess up I mess up" mentality, if I'm working with a new medium I draw make a quick drawing just for that so I won't care if I screw up, but it's different for everyone. Definitely there's still a little nervousness when using a medium I haven't worked with in a while, or something totally new. (Did a whole, crappy drawing just to try out gouache, and I was still thinking about the worst possible outcome.)

I feel like I'm being strawmanned a bit here. Maybe that isn't the intention, but it's starting to feel that way.

Wtf, how? I mean, if you personally feel traditional art is obsolete I can't stop you, but it feel like you're really grasping at straws to validate that idea. Sure, it's not as common as it used to be, but many artists still use traditional tools.

About your definition, they are related. I know I'm not very smart for someone my age, but outdated is normally synonymous with obsolete, you can find them coupled together in multiple dictionary sites. Even the link you shared says they're synonyms with eachother. (Which, like, synonymous is defined as "closely associated with or being alike in meaning.")

Even socially the word is used negatively, like with outdated textbooks, outdated food, outdated... other methods of doing things, outdated beliefs, etc. When something is outdated it is no longer seen as valuable. Clearly you grew up in an environment where that wasn't the case, which is cool I guess?

I'm passionate about art, it would have been interesting to pick your brain about why you grew to see traditional art in such a way, but this whole high school melodrama is stupid. Also feels like I'm getting gaslite over a word, so I'm going to tap out and let you go be offended.

@DarkSena Yeah, it was really neat seeing other people who like working traditionally, and seeing the posts here in general. Sorry I turned your thread into a shitshow, didn't think things would escalate so much.

[DarkSena]

@Kaisei I think it depends on how fast you are able to make the comic as the people do quickly consume the webcomic content. I'm personally relatively slow in digital, also my hand gets cramps while drawing digitally so overall traditional works better for me in terms of speed and not causing so much harm to my body.

Yesm refills are really costly for my type of markers and the paper really sucks in a ton of the ink, it feels like refilling one or the other marker all the time but if you shop in bulk, you always make a purchase for some amount of time as those refills do last you some amount of time.

@UrMom Oh nuu, don't call it a shitshow I tried to calm down the situation a bit. Of course if someone feels like they're being attacked they get really defensive. It's basically throwing arguments at each other but the agruments instead of being absorbed they fall on the ground and rot there I'm still glad that I've opened this topic so I was able to share my thoughts with others and getting to know people while they're sharing their own thoughts. I mean this is my first time in forums after many years. I seriously don't remember the last time I've written so much text, haha.

[thepenmonster]

readers may not appreciate all the details in your work

Won't.

I've sat on a bus watching Korean folks going though Naver Webtoon many times.

flick flick flick flick tap over to Instagram flick flick flick flick flick tap over to Kakaotalk tap tap tap tap tap tap tap back to webtoon flick flick flick flick tap over to YouTube flick flick flick stop five seconds tab back to Kakaotalk tap tap tap tap tap tab back to Naver, repeat until the existential lack fulfillment starts to surface through the smartphone mental noise once again...

I doubt it's any different in the west.

[DarkSena]

That's the sad truth of how we do live now at the moment. People do scroll down their phone like as a chain, giving to single artwork no more than two seconds their time and keep scrolling until their thumbs get numb. It's terrible how everything got to be consumed so fast... When I do remember just five years ago the piece gave you a long comment describing how what exactly they liked on your art, giving it so much more time. I used to have spent weeks on a single drawing and then giving feedback was a huge reward. Nowadays I still do spend countless hours dedicating my time into the small details, polishing the lines and barely you ever get a feedback and if you do, it's usually not longer than a few words. This is quite dissapointing to me but there's nothing you can really do about it.

[VersusVII]

I started drawing my manga traditionally, sketching with pencils and then inking. I put screentones with the computer because I'm a disaster with the cutter and screentones are very expensive and I can't find them in my country.

I'm now correcting the pages in digital because it's easier, the perspectiva rulers on Clip Studio helped me fix a lot of meh backgrounds.
I think I will switch to digital for making my comic and keep traditional art for some illustrations or panels.

[Kaisei]

I personally do slow down when reading a webcomic with particularly good, unique art. But yeah, the internet is a medium meant for fast scrolling. As long as you enjoy creating your art, the process is worth it.

[annaportia]

I am also a more traditional artist and certainly feel more comfortable using 'physical' mediums. I don't think using either a traditional, or digital method is better or worse, both have their own unique advantages and disadvantages. Though I will say, more traditional methods are certainly slower. But I've found that traditional methods make it easier to add an artist's distinctive, and personal touch/style to the work as well. While I'm learning more about digital methods, I still prefer paper and ink (to use myself), in my mind nothing beats sitting down with piece of paper and filling it up with a story.

[DarkSena]

@VersusVII Same. I also did most of the earlier works in the hand and afterwards put the screentones in later because as you said yourself (it was for me very same) it was almost impossible to get screentones those ones being used in Japan, where you cut the part out and stick it onto the page.

Clip Studio Paint used to be Manga Studio. I got myself that one afterwards but used it only for a short while and then I dropped drawing anything you could call a comic until I decided last year I'll give it an another chance and do it properly this time as in the past I mostly did One Shots every now and then lol CSP is now very commonly used by many and I definitely can see why.

@PortiaV8 Well yes, I would not put neither on the padestal of the glory because every single person can decide which medium fits your better and which one you are gonna use in future. It's very visible that vast majority comics published across the webcomics are drawn digitally and I am not calling that a bad thing, it's just when I go around and see someone using traditional as well it has for me a very special feeling, because all the old mangas have been mostly drawn without the help of a computers it definitely gives me a sense I can relate to.

[TedGravesArt]

I make my comics digitally, but when not doing comic work I prefer to work traditionally. I even avoid certain digital tools like line smoothing to make sure I retain and hone the fine muscle control to be able to switch back and forth seamlessly. Traditional has a very different look that I love, that I've never been able to replicate digitally. A lot of old industry pros still swear by traditional media as well. Traditional really just looks more alive and freeform.
It's not nearly as efficient, it's true. But tbh, even though I have access to the most professional art software in the industry, my favorite tools are still just a bottle of rapidograph ink and a wad of toilet paper.

[AmazementComics]

The level of desirability might go up down in trends but I doubt traditional art will ever become irrelevant. I’m trying to focus more on digital art nowadays but I still love traditional, maybe that’s the 50s and 60s era type mindset in me. I’m in awe of digital concept art like you see from the pros at ArtStation but a part of me will always gravitate to good old paper, pen, and pencil comics. I myself created and finished my first ever webcomic series done with notebook paper and pencil to moderate success! And currently I only have one other hand drawn comic series I’m still making new episodes for.

Also, I’ll say that I remember when it was thought that digital comics will cancel out physical comics but they haven’t. The medium for the artwork itself has changed but in the end people still want to collect and hold physical books. Some indy comic creators I know wont offer digital versions of their comics because of that reason.

[system]

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