What do you do when you're really creatively dense?

TheGentleArtist 2020-10-30 21:50:11 UTC #2

I do at times, but most of the times I figure it out on my own. Though, sharing your ideas and getting feedback from it is alright. You get to see the gaps filling in and help better the story. So don't beat yourself down too hard.

One of the ways I get around the "dense" is just sitting back and take a minute to think, walk a bit even, to get my mind sorta and clarify to myself. It helps me stay on track and not go too ambitious.

therosesword 2020-10-30 22:08:28 UTC #3

Some of the best advice I've ever gotten was to just spew forth. Sit down when you're having problems and don't try to reach point B from point A. Just spew forth and see what point you end up at. And no, it's not a waste of time. What is a waste is trying to force something. (At least I think so)

Who knows, when you're spewing you may find a whole new direction that flows well.

Write hard, write true.

WillowTree 2020-10-30 22:12:31 UTC #4

So I personally never take in other people's advice when working on my rough draft. My first draft is exclusively for what I want to write. Then I polish it up and see what worked and what didn't. I fix the bad parts and only then do I let my friend read it. I'll listen to her comments on my work, decide if I agree with them or not and implement changes as I see fit.

I've always written for myself first though. (Maybe it's from starting writing in FanFiction originally? )

That said! There's nothing wrong with brainstorming with others if that's how you work best. Everyone has different methods of creating their works and there's no wrong creative process. If you don't like your process, then try copying other people's methods until you find one that kind of fits. The more methods you try, the more you'll learn what works for you and what doesn't and eventually you'll settle into a process that you enjoy and that works for you.

What kind of references do you use for crafting your story? Once I started taking writing seriously I found a couple books to read to help learn the mechanics in a good story and then I've also read specific genre 'how to' books.

(I'm on mobile so I can't reference your post while responding, but I hope I mostly answered the gist of what you asked. When I get home I'll go in more specifics on your specific questions.)

nathanKmcwilliams 2020-10-30 22:18:12 UTC #5

Personally I'm a very prideful artist in the sense that I want to do everything myself, and I refuse to let others tell me how to approach art.

I do ask for help when I know there's something not working. Just because I'm proud of my accomplishments, doesn't mean I know everything. Hence why I search for beta readers on occasion.

But on the other hand .. Relying on myself has been the only way I've made it this far. I'm 'dense' in the sense of being stubborn and refusing to quit. And my approach is often times bullheaded.

(But...what's wrong with wacky comedies? They can be tricky to pull off. I failed at my first attempt to do one.)

cherrystark 2020-10-30 22:22:05 UTC #6

One of my biggest struggles creatively speaking is my lack of confidence in my own abilities. I'm self-conscious about my characters and have asked for feedback on them a lot in the past. I know I'm not perfect but one of the biggest compliments of my life was when one of my college professors asked me to be his stage manager. Before he retired, he was a highly sought after director and made frequent trips to New York to teach Alba Emoting seminars. He was also a strict professor and director. He saw my potential and complimented my ability to analyze dramatic work. Some of my directing comments were often exactly what he picked up on. If this strict director could see my potential, I should too.

Kelheor 2020-10-30 22:22:13 UTC #7

I think it's perfectly okay, because I am like this I was never ever good with creating stories, even when I became the best artist in my small friends company, I was the worst in imagining plots and putting ideas together. It especially struck me when I understood how my husband doing it on a whim, just taking a few ideas from random things, putting a puzzle together and making a full story in 10 minutes.
I must say that I believe one can master it, just like anything else. Storytelling (or creating) is just as much of an art as anything else and one needs to learn how to do it before suddenly becoming great.
You probably do lack self-belief, but this doesn't mean you are bad at something, this just means that you probably need different approach

Linski 2020-10-30 22:27:32 UTC #8

Take this with a grain of salt OP because I'm definitely projecting a bit here, but based on my extremely limited knowledge of you as a poster, and your attachment/high expectations for your project - I think you just put a LOT of pressure on yourself, and subsequently freeze a bit under that pressure, hence creative block.

Imo, getting input from other people is a good way to bring that mindset back "down to earth", so to speak, and there's nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from collaboration and brainstorming with others.

joannekwan 2020-10-30 22:30:19 UTC #9

Everyone has a different process and not everyone's process will work for you!
On the forums when you ask people how they do things, replies come from a personal space that won't necessarily translate to your project.

Perhaps you could benefit from listening to separate analyses of works that neither you nor the analyst have any personal connection to? Video essays on youtube for example. I've learned a lot from these since they present a subject and then dissect them so it's like a demonstration in a classroom.

Lessons from the Screenplay is a great channel

DiegoPalacios 2020-10-30 22:33:45 UTC #10

Personally, i consider you a creative person. You come up with really memorable character designs.

Sometimes, the problem is not creativity itself, but the methods people are using to get ideas and to connect the dots. Not every method works for every person, so i recommend you to figure out what works for you.

Just remember the moments you had your best ideas or felt more inspired and remember what you did to get there.

Another variable, is that creativity often comes from a sense of play. Probably the moments you were the most inspired, were the moments you were having fun. So, make the proccess enjoyable to yourself.

Rhonder 2020-10-30 22:50:13 UTC #11

Both of these have been said already, but re: you get better by doing & there are multiple ways to do things and the current one may just not jive with how your creativity thrives the best.

The first is relatively self-explanatory, I agree with the sentiment in some of the other replies about writing being a skill and... just not everyone is good at it right away. I know I'm certainly not that good at crafting stories, for example xD I definitely lean "artist who wants to make comics" and thus my writing skills trail behind my drawing skills by quite a bit. But! I think that I've improved over time But that still didn't help me, for example, getting stuck with the characterization of the main character of the story that I mentioned in another recent thread. I have no doubt that I can and will figure that out someday... but I literally banged my head against a wall for 2 months before reshelving the whole project as a result to tackle something easier.

That gets into: there are multiple approaches, including collaborative ones or brainstorming with others, and those are valid too I've been really enjoying my current project specifically because it requires less writing on my end... it's more or less a collaborative project since it's an adaptation of a TTRPG that I'm currently playing with some friends. In that way it's like I have 4 co-authors that not only help me generate content, but generate quite a bit of it themselves without my input even. It's still on me to edit it, rephrase and condense it into a comic-able format, but it's been really fun to try working this way and is really different than anything I've done before. Granted future projects probably won't be done like this... but I think I'll likely pick up a thing or two about storytelling along the way.

That's, of course, just 1 very specific example of an "alternative writing method" but still~ In the end it's still on you to make the final decisions about what appears in your content but it doesn't have to be a solitary process.

aqua03 2020-10-30 23:13:30 UTC #13

Nothing wrong with them, I love EGT, PupTeamEpic, and Alpha Alpaca a lot and had a blast working on them. It's just I've been wanting to give a more serious fantasy story a shot for quite a while now just to branch out from my usual wheelhouse in that regard if that makes sense.

nathanKmcwilliams 2020-10-30 23:18:39 UTC #14

I was asking because, those are good in their own rights, but why can't a serious fantasy also have wacky moments?

Or even the other way around. Regular Show was a wacky ensemble kind of show, and for the final season, ended up doing a semi-serious sci-fi fantasy adventure, and it was...in my opinion at least, really good.
Gravity Falls is another great example, it had wacky moments, and extremely serious moments with lots of intrigue and mystery.

All I'm saying is that these things can be mixed, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Obviously, I'm not saying you have to or anything. It's your story after all. But I mention it, because it's at least something to ponder.

aqua03 2020-10-30 23:44:49 UTC #15

That makes more sense when you explain it like that, come to think of it.

rajillustration 2020-10-31 00:04:37 UTC #16

I don't think you're dense, I just think you haven't done something of this scale before, that's all. You don't know what to do yet, and you're asking for help because you're a more social artist rather than a vacuum artist.

Every artist is different, every author is different, we all have different ways. Some of us need to lock ourselves in a cabin the woods until the first 7 drafts are finished (that's me) other's are social artists and like to work in a team (that might be more you). Sometimes we like to talk about projects more than actually doing them (most of the time) and we use that as a form of procrastination--this is also completely normal.

My suggestion is that instead of trying to run a marathon all at once, break down your project into manageable pieces and say "I'll do this much, see how it goes, and if it isn't going...I'll do something else for a while." I know you think that this particular comic is the best thing you will ever make, but it's not. We are all made of many comics, and whatever you make after this one will be even better because of what you learned while doing this one, trust me. Don't be afraid to try stuff out, mess around with it, and maybe even let it fail, because even starting it at all is a form of success--it's a personal project, for your learning, just for you.

And as far as being worried about only making comedies--I'll have you know I was a very emo child and adult and...maybe still am...and never thought I could ever make a comedy...but then I surprised myself and decided to write humor one day. It took a while, it took a lot of writing, but now at least some people think I'm funny so I guess I'm figuring out--so just...this stuff doesn't happen overnight, making successful incredible comics doesn't happen all at once. You can only change and grow by doing and making some flops here and there.

nathanKmcwilliams 2020-10-31 00:07:01 UTC #17

For what it's worth, I really think you have a strong sense of humor and a knack for comedic timing. I see you as a pretty creative person, and I think EGT alone is a testament to that, there's a lot of episodes to go through.
Plus there's Alpha Alpaca too. That's two whole series, which is a lot more than most people attempt.

aqua03 2020-10-31 00:41:24 UTC #18

Thanks, that really means a lot to me to hear that.

(I also recently realized that my sense of humor is pretty similar to stuff like Deltarune/Undertale, Earthbound, and Cave Story. So I guess I'm in good hands in that regard.)

@rajillustration

I've been trying to do the break things down into more manageable chunks thing, should probably practice more on that sort of thing just in general going forward. Any tips on how you do that?

That's something I need to accept more in that regard that failure is inevitable and okay in that regard.

nathanKmcwilliams 2020-10-31 00:54:38 UTC #19

One of the positives about having characters that are in a comedic setting, is that laughter helps to form a bond. People connect with characters that make them laugh.
Hence the reason the Marvel movies work so well, they have a dose of both action and comedy. Whether you like them or not, you can't deny how successful they are.

I've also been watching through the Simpsons. And holy moly, a lot of the episodes from seasons 5-7 have surprising amounts of strong emotional content.

So, comedy can be used to strengthen an audiences attachment to characters. Which, is something I noticed in other series, like One Piece, and especially Gintama. If you can make characters that people can laugh along with, you can run the gamut of emotions too.

rajillustration 2020-10-31 01:08:39 UTC #20

Yeah, it's a method that works really well for me. What I do is I break my work down into different types of chunks--so either time based chunks (like I will work 30 minute today) or in content based chunks (like I will write 1200 words today) but to do these chunks, I have to break up my script into pages or episodes, and from these I have to break my process for doing each page into a chunk.

So I follow an order that I've figured out works for me based on things I've done in the past. You may have a different order:

-put down the font
-draw some stick-figury gestures to see where the panels will all be
-make the bubbles and the borders of the panels
-lineart
-flatting
-adding lighting to the color layers (which is optional)
-adding spec effects and color and details behind the panels for interest.

Each of those steps is in itself a chunk. Altogether it's like "damn that's a long list" and thinking about doing that list hundreds of times is a lot...but if you think instead "Today I'll just do the flatting and see where it takes me" then that's manageable. I make my chunks really small because I usaully do this comic in between other things. So having a chunk that will only take like less than 60 minutes is ideal.

aqua03 2020-10-31 01:44:55 UTC #21

I guess another reason why I have such trouble trusting myself with my ability to write Drachenseele is in regards to the heavier themes I want to touch on, especially in regards to the antagonists of the first arc given that they touch of some heavy and somewhat topical political themes like racism, isolationism, good causes being hijacked and corrupted into something bad (The antagonist group originally wanted to solve their land's energy crisis only to end up becoming twisted into an extremely militarized supremacist terrorist group of sorts thanks to the machinations of some higher ups in the group with a less than savory motives.) among other similar topics and I'm terrified screwing up that sort of thing and "making a fool of myself" so to speak by poorly handling those themes, maybe even getting cancelled or something due to screwing up with stuff like that and chased out of Tapastic and other social media circles by an angry mob if I am to be over the top about it. That might just be my anxiety and perfectionism speaking again, but that is a genuine worry I have regarding the heavier subject matter I've been wanting to explore with Drachenseele if that makes sense.

I just don't want to screw up and get hurt as a result if that makes sense.

DokiDokiTsuna 2020-10-31 02:14:36 UTC #22

I used to go through a similar thing when I started composing music...I could do melody & harmony and a basic beat, but all the stuff in between, that makes a song feel "full" and gives it weight and a certain energy...I couldn't figure out how to do it. I wasn't even sure what to ask, not that I had anyone to ask...

So eventually I just gave up. Instead of continuing to attempt songs where I would only end up getting stuck, I decided to stay where I was comfortable: with 8-bit music. Sure, maybe it was simple and not "real" music, but I actually understood it and I could make it sound good. I had fun~

Fast forward a year and a half later: I've started making serious attempts to return to more detailed, contemporary sound, and to my surprise it's gotten easier. A few weeks ago, in a major triumph, I made my first rock accompaniment that actually sounded...normal. ^^; Like an actual song, and not just 'drums + various dissonant guitar noises'. This was something I'd been thinking I would simply NEVER be able to do, mere days before I just...did it.

All that is to say that, sometimes accepting your limits, with any art form, can be the best thing for you. At worst, it means you'll be "stuck" doing what you're best at and what you can enjoy without hassle. And at best, it means you'll be slowly and subtly learning as you go (as I was~), and the next time you decide to attempt that impossible task, you'll surprise yourself with your newfound skill.

If you have trouble with writing full narratives, there's nothing wrong with just having fun making characters and settings and premises. That's basically all I do on my DeviantArt account: it's the one space I have where I can just create * things * without any expectations or strings attached. If I draw a random OC, or come up with a random story idea, I can just put it out there and let it go. If I have more ideas about it later that I can build on, great. If not, that's fine too. Really, a lot of artists do this; the epic storytellers aren't as common as you might think from being here all the time. ^^;

Y'know that saying, 'if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it'll live its whole life believing it's stupid'? I think that might apply here. There are lots of valid ways to be creative and tell stories, and the fact that you're struggling with one of them and always needing help doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. Maybe it just means that's not the one you're best suited for, and you'd have more fun if you found a medium/style that actually played to your strengths.

I'm thinking of all the things I've considered doing for the many stories that I simply don't have time to make into comics/novels...there's the usual 'limited series of concept artwork with descriptions', but you could also do one-shot-ish comics simply showing cool events that you just want to draw, without bothering with all the buildup of a 'proper' story. If a random, completely unexplained thing looks cool enough, people will still like it and take interest in it. Maybe it can't survive on a comics website like this one, but you could certainly find success on other platforms.

If you're more into lore exploration, you could even try something like RWBY's World of Remnant mini-series, where you just talk mysteriously about how the world works. ^^ I've seen things like that both in comic and video form...again, it might not do well on Tapas, but in other places, definitely. Webtoons, even, is no stranger to comics that are just info+cool visuals.

I think I need to bring this rant to a stopping point...in conclusion, you don't have to quit what you're trying to do; if it's what you really want, despite the struggle, you should definitely keep trying. But if you DO decide to quit, that doesn't mean you have to give up on the story you want to tell. You can always find another way.