What do you think about thumbnails with "bl" label?

[scottwuming]

No worries, I completely understand your point. Besides, I am treating this subject in a marketer's perspective.

Yes, if a BL sub-category could be made available then rest assured the labels will be taken off. I had it off on Pixiv since they have the exact filters.

The warning page is still technically a warning but is never intended to patronize homosexuality and the likes as unequal to heterosexuality. Heck, I am gay myself, why would I do that? XP We have it there as heads up for those who do not prefer such content. We all have our preferences and that is what we just want to respect. Mine, in particular, had to be a warning as it contains m/m NSFW scenes.

The labels help me in finding which is BL among the thumbnails. My other method is to type BL / yaoi / gay / lgbt on the search box but I still get more results from the thumbnail labels. If this search bar gets its results from the episode tags then it probably would be best if everybody can tag theirs appropriately.

[gateofselidor]

NSFW warnings are completely appropriate, and separate from warnings for gay romance in general. I think it's something that's come over from fanfiction, as a lot of BL creators got into that before moving into original BL. In fanfic communities you get a lot of people who want to read about a particular character, but not a slash pairing, so those exaggerated, patronising warnings became commonplace. They don't really belong in original comics, but people are used to using them without really thinking about the implications of putting WARNING: THIS STORY CONTAINS GAY STUFF, DON'T LIKE DON'T READ!!! on their rather tame school romance or whatever.

[keii4ii]

Unfortunately, none of the options in the poll fits my opinion on the subject matter. My opinion is that it depends on the comic, and the audience you're trying to attract.

Are you specifically catering to BL fans? Then use the BL label.

Are you hoping to attract readers who may or may not be into homosexual male romance, but may be interested in a good story that happens to have such romance? Then don't use the label.

Do you want to attract both types of readers? That might be a little tricky; as you've seen in this thread, people who fall into the latter category may specifically avoid comics with the BL label. Not impossible, of course; just tricky.

@gateofselidor also brings an important point. The BL "warning" makes sense for fanfics where they turn heterosexual characters into homosexual just so the author can make their favorite pairing work. Don't they also have the "het" label where they do the opposite -- putting homosexual characters in heterosexual relationships? In that specific context, the warning is about "this fanfic disregards certain things about the canon."

[scottwuming]

Yep, we could go to more specifics with your options in the latter polls. In the meantime, the questions and options I presented were to identify the people interested in the subject matter vs. their general opinion on the labeling "BL". Since, as from what I can see, the issue on this labeling has stemmed down to one's view on BL, with most people who disagree seeing it as cheap, unrealistic and full of distasteful tropes.

(My stance on BL: m/m with manga-style execution, I'm more on the technical side. lol Sadly, more original comic artists have ventured on the cliches in BL -I could have too- but in my opinion, making your entire story run on these cliches is just a waste of time and energy. Without being blocked by editors, etc., these artists have the freedom to exercise creativity but if it will only become a cliche BL then I am not interested in it. Still, as a fan of the genre, I would give any comic that claim as BL a chance. I often find hidden gems.)

Thank you for sharing your views! You're right, if my comic were more of homosexual male romance differing from the BL delivery then I do not see the necessity to label it BL. And yes, my primary target market are BL fans. In marketing, it is only right to decide which is your primary target so you are sure to get the most out of it.

Attracting "both types" of readers is mostly why I'm engaging in this discussion, since obviously it would be good for us to attract beyond the BL fandom. I've had non-BL fans, like my female readers' boyfriends, also read and enjoy my work so I've never really thought about further marketing to a secondary as I can depend on word-of-mouth. Besides, with the NSFW in my work, I cannot just impose it around on others. My challenge has been to make a BL that stands out even from its Japanese counterparts.

[yoonakinkan]

Well, honestly, I've been thinking about putting a "bl" label on my comic.
Since I don't have one now, I'm constantly getting ignorant or harassing messages /blaming/ me when readers finally come to the conclusion that the main character is male and that his love interest is male. It's obviously not enough that they are constantly called "he/him", I have bl/shounenai/yaoi tags, and the descriptions clearly state time and time again that they are male... There's even a beach image I put up with them in their swim trunks! DX.
It seems, most people automatically decide that, since there isn't a bl label and that they don't want to read descriptions, this MUST be about a straight couple. Typically (and its several pages in), when they finally /read/ the comic, they then proceed to accuse/insult/bombard me with angry messages about their apparent horror when realizing that they've been reading (and have liked, according to previous comments) a bl.

I don't want those sorts of readers anymore, honestly. It's very hard to see day on and day out
So, that's why I'd consider a bl label. Not to label, not to belittle, but to protect my readers (and myself ;u; ) from all that ignorant nonsense.

[ikushina]

I agree with you, it has become a dumb trend now.

As for my own comic.. I don't think I need a label for a comic called Unfortunate yaoi lmao

[mac]

tbh i just rly hate reading cishet straight stories sometimes??? like and not in th yaoi fangirl sorta way, like??? theyre usually all really boring and trope-y but usually in lgbta+ stories theyre not as bad??? lol

but anyway, w/ BL labels?? i dont know if i have an opinion abt them really?? usually like if there's two dudes on th thumbnail and theyre close and maybe staring lovingly at eachother or whatev u can tell that its gonna be gay as hell and u can either read it or take a hike, yknow?? i guess what im saying is that the BL label could be extra reassurance?? especially if one of the people on the thumbnail looks pretty androgynous.

EDIT: also tbh,, usualy the BL label won't do much for me,, seeing as i like eye-catching thumbnails,, like,,, if th thumbnail art is bad im leaving even if the story turns out to be heart-wrenching and poignant,, yknow??? but i usually try 2 give a lot of BL labelled stories a chance,, it's only fair seeing that I too am a gay.. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[meatmaiden]

It makes me sad to read this because BL manga/comics do NOT equate the fetish tropey yaoi stuff you all are referring to.

I personally avoid the over fetishized trope stuff because it makes me uncomfortable. So I know for a fact there are BL manga without these elements. Especially the older stuff, which didn't have much sex at all. Try reading The Heart of Thomas by Hagio Moto if you don't believe me. Of course these comics aren't without their problems, due to the fact that they were written in 70s Japan (a country that even today has very little knowledge of LGBTQA+ issues, here's another article while we're at it), but they were profoundly better than the modern fetish comics.

When I write my comic one of the main things I try and keep in mind is to be respectful towards gay men. I'm not straight myself (pansexual), but just because I'm queer doesn't mean I have a magical understanding of what it's like to be a gay man, which is a totally different life experience. So a lot of writing my comic involves research, be it asking gay men about their experiences or reading articles/forums/ect.

So knowing that I'm doing my best to be respectful and avoid the horrifying tropes of fetish comics, I'm going to go ahead and leave that label right where it is. Hopefully I can help to reclaim a very image damaged genre.

As for including LGBTQA+ ---- I will add this to my description. Thanks for the advice on this, I hadn't thought of it. It's accurate as well, there are more sexualities and identities to er, "discover" in Saints.

(anddddd please excuse any errors in my writing. I didn't sleep last night. 'orz )

[AffectedMind]

Lol as a BL "hater" I want to roll in to this topic! XD
In general I avoid BL because I'm tired of it, that's why I think it's nice to see this label, so I won't get dissapointed seeing the same thing over again. There's a boy, most likely antysocial that meets another hot babe and they fall in "love" immediately by having sex. Because "it is so wrong, but feel so right" and in most cases it rolls like that. After reading few BL comics it created that kind of image (at least for me). Someone mention that rape is shown as something romantic and hot, which is disgusting. You see this "uke" type begging the seme to stop, crying and whining, but it's okay because he will like it anyway. WTF? I had really bad experience at cons with yaoists, they were noisy, squeeking every time they saw two males making love. And of course, there's an animu or mangu where two male characters hate each other and they will always be shipped because... they... don't like... each other...?
I really have nothing against gay couple or people that like that stuff! Anyone should like what they want. I just didn't have the best experience with BL lovers : / And of course it's not my type of genre. Let it be as long as you don't try to convince me it's the only true way of love (as my friend told me... He's not my friend anymore xD)
HOWEVER there was one BL I watched and quite enjoyed(?), it was Junjo Romantica, I liked the comedy there.

You asked what we think about it and I told you what I think.

And yeah buddy, she just answered your question, no need to be rude about it.

[Kayke]

I have queer characters in my comics and never felt the need to label them in any way. Being lgbtq+ isn't the most important thing about my characters, my stories, or who I am. It is definitely something that influences all of those things, but it feels so normal to me that putting a label on it seems weird.

I actually had someone call one of my comics with two girls in a relationship "Yuri" which bothered me. I'd feel the same way if someone started calling my comic BL. They both have certain connotations that make me feel a little uneasy.

[AffectedMind]

I actually had someone call one of my comics with two girls in a relationship "Yuri" which bothered me. I'd feel the same way if someone started calling my comic BL. They both have certain connotations that make me feel a little uneasy.

It's like "your comic is a fantasy genre? But you have homosexual characters in it, it's a BL now"
I find this very stupid btw, because if it's not the main focus, people shouldn't focus on it either calling it a BL or yuri genre

[FixerTheWise]

Just an addendum to this topic. I've also noticed that whenever there is a BL on the thumbnail here on Tapastic or in a Smackjeeves banner aswell, the picture is always one of these:

1: guys kissing
2: guys cuddling
3: guys looking at me pretty
and 4: (I've noticed this is pretty common) guys laying in the grass together

It is kind of telling how much tought went into the creation of these stories I mean, how creative can the artist/writer be if they do with the thumbnails what everyone else does. It's kinda braindead really...

Plus not to get too political but I think all this hurts LGBT acceptance more then helps it.

[AffectedMind]

Since I don't have one now, I'm constantly getting ignorant or harassing messages /blaming/ me when readers finally come to the conclusion that the main character is male and that his love interest is male. It's obviously not enough that they are constantly called "he/him", I have bl/shounenai/yaoi tags, and the descriptions clearly state time and time again that they are male... There's even a beach image I put up with them in their swim trunks! DX.

That... sucks, just ignore those, not worth of your time and health.
I always read the tags to see what genre is the comic, since Tapastic removed multiple genre choice.

[joannekwan]

Ha! I love this post because your summary is fairly accurate.
My thumbnail is like the complete opposite xD. Just one guy, and he ain't even lookin' at you.

As for the effects of this sub-genre, I think it's a double-edged sword. It's evident people love the genre, and acceptance of male x male relationships is more commonplace. Also I know and know of many gay men who create and enjoy the usual BL. But I can totally see how a lot of the tropes and stereotypes seen are misrepresentative, but I think that boils down to just writing good characters. A good character can be a little trope-y but they should be more than that in the end. But romanticizing rape, no matter the genders of those involved, is just wrong.

[SpavVy]

Ugh, words cannot describe how much I hate seeing rape being used as something romantic in any kind of story. xD

[AffectedMind]

Rape in general is very fragile topic, you need to handle it well, but romanticise? Hell no! Dx

[meatmaiden]

The thing that's really annoying to me about the whole rape trope is that it's furthering a pretty damaging stereotype of gay men as perverted criminals. Like... Come on now, that should be self explanatory in the damage it's causing. (bashes head against desk repeatedly.)

Luckily I haven't seen too many of those rape comics on tapastic, maybe because of the strict content rules ^^;; (But it's not like I'm looking...)

[SpavVy]

Yeah I don't understand why people romanticize a serious crime like that, I'm all for having artistic freedom and what not but I personally just find it wrong especially because I know a few rape victims.

[meatmaiden]

PFT ok goddamnit I ended up changing my thumbnail after thinking about it for a few hours. (Fickle ass meat I know)

Partly because of what I've read here... and partly because I've needed a new thumbnail for awhile. I lazily cropped the first chapter illustration when I first did it and it's been irritating me since. (Already re-drew the banner for this reason.)

I still like old BL manga... but I can't stand Saints being associated with rape-y badly written stuff T___T''' Thanks for alerting me to this issue, because I really wasn't thinking about it.

I guess to make up for the lack of warning in the thumbnail I'll put a huge ass warning in the description LOL
But I feel like I'm doing a good job making it clear that the main character is gay so hopefully I won't get anyone sobbing at me in the comments.
The tags will do the rest.

I liked this drawing I did a lot... so it's becoming the new thumb. =w=b

[meatmaiden]

Also yeee I like your thumbnail x'D
It's like-- Is he a cow? Is he a demon? What is this?? And then you click it and you're like
I was so wrong wtf