What do you think about thumbnails with "bl" label?

[mac]

tbh i just rly hate reading cishet straight stories sometimes??? like and not in th yaoi fangirl sorta way, like??? theyre usually all really boring and trope-y but usually in lgbta+ stories theyre not as bad??? lol

but anyway, w/ BL labels?? i dont know if i have an opinion abt them really?? usually like if there's two dudes on th thumbnail and theyre close and maybe staring lovingly at eachother or whatev u can tell that its gonna be gay as hell and u can either read it or take a hike, yknow?? i guess what im saying is that the BL label could be extra reassurance?? especially if one of the people on the thumbnail looks pretty androgynous.

EDIT: also tbh,, usualy the BL label won't do much for me,, seeing as i like eye-catching thumbnails,, like,,, if th thumbnail art is bad im leaving even if the story turns out to be heart-wrenching and poignant,, yknow??? but i usually try 2 give a lot of BL labelled stories a chance,, it's only fair seeing that I too am a gay.. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[meatmaiden]

It makes me sad to read this because BL manga/comics do NOT equate the fetish tropey yaoi stuff you all are referring to.

I personally avoid the over fetishized trope stuff because it makes me uncomfortable. So I know for a fact there are BL manga without these elements. Especially the older stuff, which didn't have much sex at all. Try reading The Heart of Thomas by Hagio Moto if you don't believe me. Of course these comics aren't without their problems, due to the fact that they were written in 70s Japan (a country that even today has very little knowledge of LGBTQA+ issues, here's another article while we're at it), but they were profoundly better than the modern fetish comics.

When I write my comic one of the main things I try and keep in mind is to be respectful towards gay men. I'm not straight myself (pansexual), but just because I'm queer doesn't mean I have a magical understanding of what it's like to be a gay man, which is a totally different life experience. So a lot of writing my comic involves research, be it asking gay men about their experiences or reading articles/forums/ect.

So knowing that I'm doing my best to be respectful and avoid the horrifying tropes of fetish comics, I'm going to go ahead and leave that label right where it is. Hopefully I can help to reclaim a very image damaged genre.

As for including LGBTQA+ ---- I will add this to my description. Thanks for the advice on this, I hadn't thought of it. It's accurate as well, there are more sexualities and identities to er, "discover" in Saints.

(anddddd please excuse any errors in my writing. I didn't sleep last night. 'orz )

[AffectedMind]

Lol as a BL "hater" I want to roll in to this topic! XD
In general I avoid BL because I'm tired of it, that's why I think it's nice to see this label, so I won't get dissapointed seeing the same thing over again. There's a boy, most likely antysocial that meets another hot babe and they fall in "love" immediately by having sex. Because "it is so wrong, but feel so right" and in most cases it rolls like that. After reading few BL comics it created that kind of image (at least for me). Someone mention that rape is shown as something romantic and hot, which is disgusting. You see this "uke" type begging the seme to stop, crying and whining, but it's okay because he will like it anyway. WTF? I had really bad experience at cons with yaoists, they were noisy, squeeking every time they saw two males making love. And of course, there's an animu or mangu where two male characters hate each other and they will always be shipped because... they... don't like... each other...?
I really have nothing against gay couple or people that like that stuff! Anyone should like what they want. I just didn't have the best experience with BL lovers : / And of course it's not my type of genre. Let it be as long as you don't try to convince me it's the only true way of love (as my friend told me... He's not my friend anymore xD)
HOWEVER there was one BL I watched and quite enjoyed(?), it was Junjo Romantica, I liked the comedy there.

You asked what we think about it and I told you what I think.

And yeah buddy, she just answered your question, no need to be rude about it.

[Kayke]

I have queer characters in my comics and never felt the need to label them in any way. Being lgbtq+ isn't the most important thing about my characters, my stories, or who I am. It is definitely something that influences all of those things, but it feels so normal to me that putting a label on it seems weird.

I actually had someone call one of my comics with two girls in a relationship "Yuri" which bothered me. I'd feel the same way if someone started calling my comic BL. They both have certain connotations that make me feel a little uneasy.

[AffectedMind]

I actually had someone call one of my comics with two girls in a relationship "Yuri" which bothered me. I'd feel the same way if someone started calling my comic BL. They both have certain connotations that make me feel a little uneasy.

It's like "your comic is a fantasy genre? But you have homosexual characters in it, it's a BL now"
I find this very stupid btw, because if it's not the main focus, people shouldn't focus on it either calling it a BL or yuri genre

[FixerTheWise]

Just an addendum to this topic. I've also noticed that whenever there is a BL on the thumbnail here on Tapastic or in a Smackjeeves banner aswell, the picture is always one of these:

1: guys kissing
2: guys cuddling
3: guys looking at me pretty
and 4: (I've noticed this is pretty common) guys laying in the grass together

It is kind of telling how much tought went into the creation of these stories I mean, how creative can the artist/writer be if they do with the thumbnails what everyone else does. It's kinda braindead really...

Plus not to get too political but I think all this hurts LGBT acceptance more then helps it.

[AffectedMind]

Since I don't have one now, I'm constantly getting ignorant or harassing messages /blaming/ me when readers finally come to the conclusion that the main character is male and that his love interest is male. It's obviously not enough that they are constantly called "he/him", I have bl/shounenai/yaoi tags, and the descriptions clearly state time and time again that they are male... There's even a beach image I put up with them in their swim trunks! DX.

That... sucks, just ignore those, not worth of your time and health.
I always read the tags to see what genre is the comic, since Tapastic removed multiple genre choice.

[joannekwan]

Ha! I love this post because your summary is fairly accurate.
My thumbnail is like the complete opposite xD. Just one guy, and he ain't even lookin' at you.

As for the effects of this sub-genre, I think it's a double-edged sword. It's evident people love the genre, and acceptance of male x male relationships is more commonplace. Also I know and know of many gay men who create and enjoy the usual BL. But I can totally see how a lot of the tropes and stereotypes seen are misrepresentative, but I think that boils down to just writing good characters. A good character can be a little trope-y but they should be more than that in the end. But romanticizing rape, no matter the genders of those involved, is just wrong.

[SpavVy]

Ugh, words cannot describe how much I hate seeing rape being used as something romantic in any kind of story. xD

[AffectedMind]

Rape in general is very fragile topic, you need to handle it well, but romanticise? Hell no! Dx

[meatmaiden]

The thing that's really annoying to me about the whole rape trope is that it's furthering a pretty damaging stereotype of gay men as perverted criminals. Like... Come on now, that should be self explanatory in the damage it's causing. (bashes head against desk repeatedly.)

Luckily I haven't seen too many of those rape comics on tapastic, maybe because of the strict content rules ^^;; (But it's not like I'm looking...)

[SpavVy]

Yeah I don't understand why people romanticize a serious crime like that, I'm all for having artistic freedom and what not but I personally just find it wrong especially because I know a few rape victims.

[meatmaiden]

PFT ok goddamnit I ended up changing my thumbnail after thinking about it for a few hours. (Fickle ass meat I know)

Partly because of what I've read here... and partly because I've needed a new thumbnail for awhile. I lazily cropped the first chapter illustration when I first did it and it's been irritating me since. (Already re-drew the banner for this reason.)

I still like old BL manga... but I can't stand Saints being associated with rape-y badly written stuff T___T''' Thanks for alerting me to this issue, because I really wasn't thinking about it.

I guess to make up for the lack of warning in the thumbnail I'll put a huge ass warning in the description LOL
But I feel like I'm doing a good job making it clear that the main character is gay so hopefully I won't get anyone sobbing at me in the comments.
The tags will do the rest.

I liked this drawing I did a lot... so it's becoming the new thumb. =w=b

[meatmaiden]

Also yeee I like your thumbnail x'D
It's like-- Is he a cow? Is he a demon? What is this?? And then you click it and you're like
I was so wrong wtf

[joannekwan]

Love the new thumbnail! The whole thing presents mystery with his androgynous look and there's a sinister undertone with the red eyes!

[meatmaiden]

Thank you! ^0^
Keepin' it creepy! ✌︎

[ericherii]

omg thats your comic ? XD

[WednesdayAsh]

BL label is brilliant.

It makes no pretention of being anything else other than wish fullfilment, not that theres anything wrong with that, and it serves as an ad AND a warning.

A thumbnails job is to represent the work behind the little window, and if BL will get you the audience you want and save you from intolarent anti-BL idiots then power to you.

The BL label has a place in the grammar of webcomic thumbnails for sure.

[Vikiro_Hop]

To be honest I avoid comics with the BL label mostly because I assume they are following a boring formula. I don't care what the nature of the relationships in the comics I read. If your main selling point is dudes being with dudes then I can't help but think there isn't a lot going on. That being said there are probably tons of great comics with that in their thumbnail I just really don't want to bother with them. If the relationships you write would cease being interesting if the genders were messed with then they are probably not well written.

[LordVincent]

It saddens me to see that this many associate the label with the comic following a boring formula, or assume it will be rapey wish-fulfillment. What saddens me more is that the people saying this do have a rational reason to do so: A lot of yaoi, shounen-ai and BL marked comics (both proffessionally published in japan and webcomic ones) work like this.

Here's an input coming from someone who tries to create something beyond just the above, but still puts the BL label in the thumbnail. For me, the BL label works partly as an advertiser, and partly as a warning. The later thing is neccessary, because this is not just the wishfulfillment of some 16 year old for me - it's the only way for me to express my sexuality and romanticism (if that is even a useable word for it) as a gay transguy who has to wait until AT LEAST late winter 2016 until I can get on hormones. It's important to me, and while I am very open about my sexuality and gender identity and proud of what I am, I just don't wanna deal with a big bunch of straight, closeminded men flushing to my comic and then getting disappointed and whining I should've put a warning on it. I have a follower on another site who categorizes all the female characters of my other comic by their boob size and makes rape jokes on my BL comic and I don't want any more of those kinda people. Putting "BL" in the thumbnail seems to help keep them the fuck outta my business. Although I might put "LGBTQIA" on Bloodroot's thumbnail someday instead, since it has lesbians as well and will have a transgender person... plus some stuff crossing gender lines.

I do have sexual content in my comic. It bothers me that people think that is fetishizing, because it's an opinion built upon the view society currently has on sex - something I want to work against. I don't think sex closes out the possibility of writing a good story. Boylove today, I feel, either shoves sex into the closet like it's a bad ugly sheep, or it fetishizes it to no end and the characters aren't given a chance to become proper... well. Characters!
I want to contribute to a sex positive society, that understands the importance of CONSENT. Is that really so bad?

I also use the label because I am more likely to read BL comics myself. I'm also fairly likely to just stop reading after like 5 pages due to shitty art or shitty writing (although sometimes I keep reading because it falls into the so bad it's funny category). I occasionally read hetero comics or lesbian ones as well (the latter one is far too rare! We need more cute lesbians!) but for the former I really need to be in a good mood and it needs to be very comedic... Otherwise I just can't deal, cause it reminds me of when I was struggling so hard to be a hetero girl myself. Various people have various reasons for looking for one type of romance rather than the other, and I want to make it easier for people who prefer or are willing to read BL to find my comic.