What if Tapas had a mentor program?

punkarsenic 2017-09-27 17:07:32 UTC #9

yeah, thats definitely something that would need to be in place.

thats why i specified 'willing' - im aware that it has the potential to be a lot of work, and it should absolutely be an opt in system on both sides. im not sure what incentives you could provide for the mentors... if it were to move on to a collaboration stage, tapas could offer promotion and highlights, and maybe, like @Kayke described from her own experience, mentees acting as assistants?

absolutely. there should be a regulation on who mentors and who gets mentoring. your time limit idea is a really good one, too!

now thats a good idea!

punkarsenic 2017-09-27 17:20:32 UTC #10

that makes sense, yeah, i dont think it would be fair to expect an entire team to mentor an individual creator

UbePie 2017-09-27 17:29:42 UTC #11

I currently have an unpaid internship and i had to sunmit my resume and do an interview. So doing somthing like that would let mentors pick who they want to work with. During the " interview" the apprentice can state what they would like to work on and what are their strengths.

I see no problems with it but people should also be willing to do work in return. You can't expect the mentor to do everything. You have to do research and read and look up stuff, in the end the mentor can only tell you what they did to succeed and help you that way. But their path to success might not work for you, so you also have to work at it.

punkarsenic 2017-09-27 17:32:35 UTC #12

this seems to be a general consensus that im all for, and i like idea people are leaning towards of a system like this being more like an internship, that would be really cool!

i didnt think much of mentor incentive at first because i was thinking of a mentor as a largely hands-off role, just someone who made it who can have a smaller creator's back. however, i think the setups people are describing are way more interesting than that.

IdiotWithPencil 2017-09-27 17:38:14 UTC #13

I would love this =D my biggest problem is that I have no feedback/editor I would love a seasoned veteran to show me the ropes and help me learn how to make a better comic

DiegoPalacios 2017-09-27 18:22:46 UTC #14

I like the idea. It`s great for people learning about drawing and/or writing.
Some important details in my opinion may help to make it better:

1-Mentoring according to genre. For example, if someone is making a science fiction comic, he may be interested in a mentor who knows about alien anatomy or science fiction tropes and story conventions.

2-Choosing the focus on the mentoring: Some are great artists, but struggle with writing, others are the opposite case and some people want to improve in both aspects. The idea would be to get a mentor better fitted to help the student in what he/she needs to improve.

UbePie 2017-09-27 18:38:43 UTC #15

I also think that the recent Incubator program was suppose to be a little bit like this, and I'm sure there will be people who didn't get accepted (once they announce stuff) that still want some mentor-ship.

I do think it's important to stick with genre and specific help. A Romance creator won't be very helpful to a newbie that writes Horror.

punkarsenic 2017-09-27 18:47:42 UTC #16

yeah, the incubator was a really cool lean towards this kind of thing, which is exciting!

and absolutely, people would have to be paired with someone to whom their advice is useful.

IdiotWithPencil 2017-09-27 18:55:14 UTC #17

you know instead of mentors why not editors program =/ editors are actually trained to help artist put out the best quality content possible, I know that the word editor sends shivers down some peoples spine but all of the greatest fiction in the world has had a writer and and editor so why not?

not saying that the mentor programm isn't and excellent idea just asking why not?

Kayke 2017-09-27 19:03:51 UTC #18

I feel like most editors would want to get paid for their work. The only free editor I've ever had is my partner, who helps me because they love me or whatever. I think tapas (or whoever tried to organize that) might have a hard time finding enough editors willing to participate for free.

And while an artist-mentor could have their apprentice do busy-work that they'd learn from, I don't know if the editor would have any tasks a fledgling cartoonist could help them with in exchange?

That being said though, if you're personally looking for editing help: https://forums.tapas.io/t/will-tutor-and-edit-for-fanart/20155

Aspie_Gamer 2017-09-27 19:06:34 UTC #19

Nah...To me, a mentorship program would be a waste of time for those who don't feel like there is anything that they could be taught by a "successful" creator that they couldn't learn on their own or already know from somewhere else. Not to mention the biggest problem I can see with this proposed program is that some of the big time creators would (even if they don't intend for it) subconsciously project what they want onto the small time creator or what they think the site or the readers want rather than nurture what the small time creator wants out of their comic.

Like the old saying goes "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime!". Self sufficiency and being your own biggest critic is the quickest way imo that one will improve upon their craft rather than always asking "does this look right?" or taking advice from people who just plain don't get your vision for your work.

As such, for anybody who thinks they need a mentor, I urge you to read these bullet points below and then really think it over on whether you would actually benefit from having one or not.

Use a search engine to find the necessary materials, tutorials and/or research for your comic. For example, if you want pose refs/sheets, look some up on DeviantArt or go to a pose practice site where you are given maybe a minute per pose to sketch them as quickly as you can.
You aren't going to be good until you actually sit down and do the work. No amount of "practice" will prepare you for this. Just by drawing your comic all the time, you'll quickly get better and can more accurately determine the flaws in your work when you compare your old stuff to what you are currently drawing. Same with writing. Take into account any characters who are getting too much or too little attention. What are your best strengths in your story? What's your weakest link and how can you fix it? Be your own critic and you'll be good to go.
Reach out to comics on your skill level. Be genuine in your comments about their work. If you want to further the relationship, take the initiative and offer guest art/comics. Even just being consistent by putting out the best work that you can do will land you people whom you never thought would be interested in your comic.

UbePie 2017-09-27 19:16:32 UTC #20

While I agree with your statement and am all for self sufficiency, and googleing stuff. I must use your own words against you.

Someone had to teach that man to fish in order for him to feed himself.
That's what a mentor would ideally do. Not hand them stuff but teach them things. A mentor can't teach you to draw they can only give you resources to improve, just as you did above. I have done tons of research, that's what I do. I've joined groups social media, looked up tutorials, and I have improved. But I still have questions that I can't find on the net. There is always information that someone has that can't be found online.

For example in school I have a Portfolio class, we had to write a grant. Could I look up how to write a grant and do it all myself? Yes, I could. Did it benefit me, that I had a professor who has been on the board for that grant, and knows what the board is looking for, look over my grant? Yes. Would I have been able to find that information on the internet? No.

That's what a mentor ship should be.

punkarsenic 2017-09-27 19:18:33 UTC #21

then they can always not apply for the program?

there is a lot you can figure out on your own, and i should know, as thats what ive been doing until recently. but having someone who's been through it all before you there to give feedback and encouragement, if nothing else, is always a nice plus. speaking personally, as a 17 year old and a beginner, i tend to give myself a hard time over different feedback coming from people who aren't that much more experienced than myself - it would be nice to have someone whose opinion i could rely on.

IdiotWithPencil 2017-09-27 19:31:16 UTC #22

I
you make good points but here's a counter argument that I have in these moments:

what if I don't know what to get better at, where do I start if I don't know what to do after getting to the summit, and how do I get pass to more advance art techniques, which is one of the scarces thing to fine in these ocean of beginner tutorial
how do I notice which character is being in the spot light too long?, what is my weakest link and how do I find it?, my readers love where I am going but my subs are dropping why is this? I am stuck in a rut I haven't changed my art level for 2 years now what? where do I go to get better? what should I do? where do I start?

3.this is more about marketing then general art training so, no rebuttal here except that you should do a business or marketing course, better than entering blind

also if it's a waste of time then don't apply like punkarsenic said =/

joe_galindez 2017-09-27 19:32:09 UTC #23

The problem is that there are limits to how well you can see the flaws in your own work. First, you'll always lack objectivity. And second, you can only see the flaws that your skill level allows you to see.

A layman will look at an artwork and sense that something is wrong
A novice will look at an artwork and know that something is wrong
A master will look at an artwork and see what its creator was trying to do

heterodont 2017-09-27 20:04:41 UTC #24

To be fair, a lot of resources on the internet, at least the more popular ones, often times have errors you would not otherwise know about unless you have someone who's had some experience with the topic at hand. For example, a ton of 2-pt perspective examples online are problematic because the vanishing points are often too close to one another. Foundational skills have a ton of nuances some people sometimes don't pick up, and having an extra set of eyes will help catch mistakes early on before those mistakes get cemented into your skillset.

Not to mention, what happens if you don't understand something? Are you supposed to ask the tutorial maker, who very likely doesn't want to help people beyond what they've explained themselves? At least with having a mentor you have supplemental knowledge, so if you don't understand how the figure should look like in a frame or whatever you can ask for some insight.

And if a hypothetical mentor is trying to mutate your project into something they like, then they're not being a very good mentor.

DiegoPalacios 2017-09-27 20:07:50 UTC #25

The point of the mentorship would be to teach the people who wants to learn. I don`t think this will be an obligation in Tapas. It would be awkward and inefficient. It would probably pair willing successful creators and willing beginners according to genre, interests and aspects to improve. So it would be great for willing people.

IdiotWithPencil 2017-09-27 20:18:13 UTC #26

this my god this so many comic artist go on an on about not needing someone cause they wouldn't get their vision and that they would morph it into a monstrosity and blah blah blah not getting that the person, if their good at their job, wants to help you make the best possible product while maintaining the original vision and felling,

=/ I guess the "Arteest" mentality that critiques don't get art or nobody understands me is strong this generation

kip 2017-09-27 21:17:34 UTC #27

I agree with what many of the people said above in response to Aspie’s comment. An artist is not an island; just like online resources can be utilized to learn, so can people from the industry.
Having someone to point out things you haven’t noticed are wrong is a huge help too, especially for beggining artists who still haven’t developed their own artistic abilities and sight to a point where they can tell what’s wrong themselves.

Back to the topic, though, it seems like a lot of people are genuinely interested in this, but I can’t help but be worried over how it not being a physical internship can being problems too... For exmaple, if the mentor asks the trainee to do work for them but doesn’t have anything to give back in return. Hypothetically this can work in a normal intership since the trainee will be learning from the work and from viewing the mentor while working, however I’m not sure doing flats for someone can have quite the same effect.
Also, on one hand having specific goals may be too time consuming and won’t allow the mentor to focus on their own work if they’re focusing on helping their trainee get work done, but on the other hand not having goals can cause a situation where the trainee doesn’t actually have any direct questions to have or work to review.
I was wondering whether there should be some kind of time limit on the program, or if the mentor and trainee should decide that for themselves? Additionally, if there should be any universal “basic goals” the team should achieve during the program.

sarrowsmith10 2017-09-27 22:18:35 UTC #28

This is sometimes an issue. However years ago, a very very talented artist agreed to help me with my art and I did lineart for her. Tracing over her pencils helped me immensely. So even though she was in malaysia, it still worked out okay. I've also done collabs in art programs that let two people draw at the same time. I learned how to color that way.. recently I've been skyping with a professional manga-ka and they are literally showing me and watching me practice inking with dip-pens even though we are a world apart. It's not the same as working in person, but it works. I think the terms of the agreement might be different for each pairing, based on the goals established by the mentorship.

Honestly we just need someone to develop the program and give it a test run for 6 months and see how it goes. I doubt tapas would do this in any official capacity, but I'm sure some of us on the forums can organize something?