3 / 25
Dec 2019

...when you become better with time and learn more skills and understand your mistakes and know how to overcome them? :grinning:
(comparing your older art with new is your best friend!)

Just like you said, it means that art needs some improvement. Like the proportions can be off, the shadows should be in different places, the line can be better, etc, etc.
The thing is, there is always room for refinement and you always become better :slight_smile:
Is that your "friend" talking to you again? It sounds like this guy bothers you a lot. You can also ask some concrete questions about your art if you want some advices.

For me, refinement has always meant achieving greater and greater levels of effortlessness. It's when the expression, the lighting, the color, the gesture all come together without being overworked.

Younger artists tend to put in a lot of extra lines and shading where they don't quite belong. They use four lines when one will do.

Aah, it was someone else- another friend. Yeah, I do need to improve on areas that I know I need to look into. I mean, I am new to digital art- which is why I ask these questions. :slight_smile:

Aaah gotcha. I ask these questions because I am new to digital art (started last year.) And I don’t have enough knowledge on how to properly draw digitally.

I am telling you - next time someone says your art needs refinement, ask them for details. Because telling someone to become better is quite useless, unlike telling them what exactly can become better. They can even show you other artworks and compare. It doesn't mean you should be like the artists they like, but if they cannot give you details, they better not telling anything at all - with time you will see the mistakes and points to improve by yourself.

Right! Absolutely. I should be asking them why... I mean, they say stuff like “it lacks refinement at worst.” Or, “line art is sloppy, the feet look weird.” But- I understand why someone may think that way. However, I am still learning. I am not a professional artist, and I certainly like to have constructive criticism. It helps me. If it isn’t constructive, then it puts me down, and it is just ridicule (ok maybe not all of it is.) I too, look for things that must be changed. Then I ask someone else if it needs to be changed/worked on. Indeed though, that I do need to improve on areas that someone else pointed out. And I do my best to look into them. I think maybe these people who I talk to on instagram (other than me asking them why) needs to find/say better words than harsh ones... because I was told that a character looked like she was wearing a helmet and not hair. And that... well, that’s the least harsh thing to be said. But- maybe instead of saying that, say instead, “this needs some definition. Add hair lines, and make it look like hair.”

Hmm I suppose its a level of mastery of your craft, the fundamentals, and your aesthetic. Its sort of best shown in progress/art improvement memes. Here's a link to an example of what I mean:


And compare the old works of these famous artists to their newer stuff:
https://www.deviantart.com/loish/gallery/scraps4
https://www.deviantart.com/mischeviouslittleelf/gallery/scraps1

It's something that takes a lot of time and effort to achieve, and its often a collection of subtle changes built up over years. On an intuitive level, its when this awkwardness in a person's art goes away and can stand on its own.

Awhile ago I gave a critique in which the work needed "refinement" but I elaborated. Things like scratchy line art, anatomy, gesture, form, values, shapes, perspective, etc. You know when a person't work is more refined when you have to really think to find something that could be improved upon on work. But by that point you're getting into increasingly subjective territory.

Indeed. Everyone has their own say. And I respect their word. But if it is harsh criticism, without a reason why they see something I cannot, without explanation, it doesn’t help me.

It doesn't matter if it is digital, paint and canvas, or crayon. Refinement comes with experience. If you have enough talent and enough practice, you won't have to think, the knowledge will be in your hand.

Edit: And definitely look at art outside of comics/anime.

Ah well it can be a sensitive topic on giving a thorough critique, since you don't know how the other person will handle. But I'm sure this forum would give you useful critiques if you want it.

Also, maybe the other person is just giving an uninformed opinion. Intuitively the other person may sense something is awkward but can't quite put their finger on it. Maybe try to ask people who you think you can learn from or try to find a mentor. That way they can give you comments and critiques that you can trust.

True. Very true. Absolutely. I do my best to take a look at art outside of comics/anime.

Hm yeah, it could be... It will be nice to find a mentor. Or someone who is much more informed (not that the person is 100% uninformed... but-) I mean, it’s good for someone to observe. I myself observe and find something that needs to be changed. I need a good explanation. I respect anyone’s opinions about what they see. I did see a lot of refinement needed when I first started digital art. But I still have lots to learn.

Not to go back to this “friend” of mine, but he said to me that “there is something very frustrating about your art. I think it is your anatomy, it seems a little off.” Uh.... yeah, I do need to improve my anatomy. But it’s the beauty of starting out, and learning about posing. I didn’t do too many posing art. But right now, I am looking at references and how to draw them.

Thing is unsolicited critiques are a big no-no in the online art community, but if you ask someone will gladly help. But not everyone is used to receiving critiques, or know how to respond to one without coming off as defensive or arrogant or making excuses.

Ah well anatomy is difficult haha, but unless someone is more knowledgeable on the subject its hard to be specific. Its probably a combination of anatomy, gesture, and perspective.

Yeah. I love drawing perspectives! Not sure why. But it is fun. :joy: Posing is really fun, but it can be hard if not drawn right.

If I told someone to refine their art I would probably mean look for specific small things they could clean up to make improvements. But I'd usually say something more specific, like... refining a sketch would be erasing unnecessary lines and blocking in the important ones. Refining shadows might mean blending and adding contrast. Basically going back over a thing and continuing to work it.

It's a very vague word if there's no context around it, though, so if someone suggesting you refine your art, def ask for them to be specific about what you can do. Possibly they don't know either, though, and they just said it because they couldn't think of something specific that would be helpful. Sometimes people don't know what to say so they just say whatever comes to mind. =)

First of all, that hair is breathtaking. 'o'

Secondly, I think of "refinement" as developing a general consistency. For example, being able to draw a hand correctly ALL the time, instead of it being hit or miss depending on the drawing/pose. Or in the case of a single picture, being able to draw ALL the body parts correctly, instead of drawing good-looking hands but lopsided feet, or super-detailed eyes on a lump-shaped head (common anime artist mistake).

In the case of this picture, I might guess the comment referred to the disparity between the drawing of the person and the drawing of the person's clothes...they differ greatly, both in level of detail and even line width. It almost looks like they were photoshopped together from two different drawings.
And if that wasn't intentional (i.e. the shirt isn't finished or something), then yeah, some refinement could be in order.

Thank you! :grin::grin:

Absolutely! I definitely may need to define the clothes a lot more (especially because it was supposed to be a military outfit. So I’ll definitely look into that.

If you actually want a crit for a particular drawing you should ask for one. Many of the better artists won't just chime in and offer tips unless they think you are open to the information. Also, on a forum, though most people are well meaning, not everyone has the same level of knowledge and some might even tell you things that are wrong. Get expert opinions, not general opinions.