What Makes A Mean Character Enjoyable?

[DiegoPalacios]

In Bakugo`s case there are some variables that help to make him more likable:

1-He is freaking hillarious

His temper and jerk behavior is often played for laughs,that makes the character more entertaining, and therefore, more likable.

2-Deep down he cares and has some genuinely heroic qualities.

He genuinely wants to be a hero and his determination to do it is admirable. Many times he has to shallow his pride to do the right thing. Of course, in real life, we don`t see the mind of people, so we dont see the hidden depths of others unless we take the time to know them better.

3-The consequences of him being an asshole are played realistically:

There is a reason he has almost no friends and don`t get along with others. And while he manages to achieve many things due to his skill, his brashness gets in the way to fulfill his potential as a hero. Many pros dont want to work with him and he struggles when it comes to teamwork.

[CodeMonkeyArts]

With Bakugo, though he was giant asshole in the beginning, he does learn from serious lessons. He was a big fish in a small pond during middle school but when he gets to UA, he then realizes that he is NOT the most powerful, nor is he the smartest. Not only that, but he also realized that while he never thought about improving himself nor studied his opponents, Izuku studied HIM. Izuku, who has been bullied by Ka-chan, had spent a lot of his time improving himself to the point where he bested Bakugo not just by knowing his moves but also to complete the test.

Bakugo ends up being greatly humbled (despite not acting like it) by all of these revelations. He isn't hot shit. He ends up being seen as loud annoyance by a lot of his classmates because of the same attitude you described. The only guy who manages to get close to him, Kirishima, is well...a really nice guy who admires Bakugo's "I don't give a shit" attitude.

I think for a mean character like Bakugo to be liked, there has to be a lot of humbling going on and then actual development. Bakugo doesn't stay the bully. He remains loud, and bombastic however no longer does he look down on everybody. He actually matures enough to get REAL goals and work at those goals. He see's Izuku and Todoroki as worth rivals, and does treasure the friendship he has with Kirishima. He doesn't take it easy on Ochaca because he doesn't want to cheapen the battle against her AND he doesn't underestimate her. So we have a previously loud, aggressive bully eat a lot of humble pie and then show development.

Kinda like Vegeta, ANOTHER mean character who was a complete DICK when he first appeared, then after repeatedly getting his ass kicked, realized that maybe he ISN'T hot shit and needs to ACTUALLY grow as a person. Umi, from Magic Knight Rayearth, was a spoiled rich bitch...who got humbled by being put in a terrifying life and death situation and managing to rise to the occasion. Kyoko planned on KILLING Sayaka and Homura to get all the juicy Grief Seeds, then get's humbled by discovering the truth about being a Magical Girl.

It's that humbled aspect that helps the character gain traction. A good dose of eating crow really helps make a mean character likable...as long as they show an evolution. They can still remain abrasive, but there is an acknowledgment of their shortcoming that helps them grow.

Now...why is a character like Mineta STILL ALIVE!!?! I HATE THAT LITTLE PERVY SHITSTAIN!

[Prometheus]

@DiegoPalacios

That actually makes a lot of sense. I guess given his character, I have a really hard time with, especially when we’re introduced to him telling Midoriya to kill himself. It’s good to see that his good qualities, though not the most prominent part of his character, allows him to shine in important moments. I...still have a hard time with him, but it’s good that he has depth.

[Prometheus]

@CodeMonkeyArts

Those are all extremely good points, too. Humility changes you. It opens the door to correcting mistakes.

It’s this part of storytelling that I don’t enjoy with MHA. I get that Bakugo’s anger and jerkiness is played for laughs, but I don’t think his behavior is funny. Though, MHA wasn’t made with me in mind, so I can let that slide. But playing perverted jokes and crap like that is beyond the line of not funny. Minnetta can be funny sometimes, but only because he looks so gosh darn stupid. He literally does nothing for the plot. That’s another debate, though.

[Iris-Grimoire]

Both hit the nail in the head with writing a "mean" non villainous character. First, you need their antics to be either enjoyable or cause others to get up to shenanigans, and payoff that they get their just desserts, either by instant karma or slowly building up that their asshole behavior won't be tolerated forever. But to be likeable, they can hurt other people with their jerk attitude, but not to the point that the fandom's opinion tips into villain-by-any-other-name - usually that's done by them still begrudingly helping considerably to beat the bad guys and the group would lose without them, or they require the nice, boring people to do something for them.

[antimekii]

Highly charismatic mean characters are absolutely my thing??? If they can insult any character while cracking a smile I'm already halfway serving myself to the platter.

Anyway, the whole deal about liking mean characters is probably because they feel much more real and trustworthy to me. Characters who are always "Good" are generally boring for me because I know... well based on experience, people I know who acts goody two shoes are generally back-stabbing people. So I really can't resonate with protagonists that acts this way.

So about Bakugo. I think his charm is all about being an extreme jackass while still being straight-laced? The dissonance between his traits must've been cool/enjoyable for people??? I haven't read bnha in years so I wouldn't know about his character development.

[CodeMonkeyArts]

He makes me laugh because EVERYONE gives him shit about his attitude. Everyone except Izuku! Even Kirishima is like "I like you cause you're BATSHIT hilarious!"

Yet he stays true to his loudmouth, give everything 100% attitude. While learning, repeatedly, that if he is a jackass...no one will work with him. Or want to. I mean...that's why pros don't like him.

[Prometheus]

@Iris-Grimoire

Man, I’m really glad I made this thread. Everything being said here is making so much sense.

@antimekii

Realism makes sense, too. No ones ever all good or all bad. We tend to be jerks sometimes in real life, and though we have good natures, we don’t always adhere to them. Just like how it was mentioned that Bakugo is a jerk, but he has good qualities deep down.

[nathanKmcwilliams]

It's cool seeing everyone break down these characters. Especially Bakugo, considering I hated him at first, and over time came to enjoy his attitude and rivalry with the other characters.

I'm pretty excited in my own series Dragon Sparking about showing off my own jerk who's 'good' character in Freya.

Her whole deal is that she's completely jealous of her adopted brother, while also having extreme anger\pride issues to boot.

Sibling rivalry is always a good way to display these kinds of tendencies in characters.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Oh my gosh, I was just thinking about this last night...this may be just my opinion, but I think there's a certain kind of mean character that is enjoyable simply because their meanness and awfulness is crafted to * chef's kiss * perfection~

Like, everyone both in the story and IRL could hate this character from the depths of their soul, myself included, but I wouldn't necessarily want them to leave the story because they just play their part so perfectly. They always elicit that same feeling of secondhand shame, or hilarious disgust, or exasperation mixed with awe (a well-written devious character is always a treat~)

Of course this has to come with consequences...maybe every once in a while they go too far (for a character who's technically with the 'good guys') or every once in a while their evil backfires on them (especially for antagonists) but in a more comedic atmosphere it's okay if they don't learn from those consequences. XD

I'd say the one thing that can make or break a mean character, however, is frequency of use. Even EXTREMELY offensive characters can work if used sparingly.
Someone who's abusing the other characters every 2 minutes, on the other hand, can quickly cross the line from funny to annoying and continue towards unbearable. Or worse: just boring. =/

[ratscout]

It really depends on the execution for me. I think a really good example of a mean character that I like to watch is Neku from The World Ends With You. I think it's because he also happens to be really funny with how mean he is and that he goes through a full character arc. Like, he's genuinely not a good person at the beginning of the game, but it's truly a joy watching him transform into one. Sometimes I think an arc is needed for a mean character to become likable.

[JRHoch]

I like it when my mean characters or villains have a code or at least a worldview that puts their behavior in context. Random meanness just gets boring and thin.

[Prometheus]

@ratscout

I’m finding that execution is a big key, in this kind of character, but also in everything. I’m learning that an idea can be great, but then just not work when you put it to paper if you don’t treat your project with love and care.

@JRHoch

Yeah. Random, unexplained meanness just ruins a character and their potential for developement.

[ar-ninetysix]

Everyone's talked about Bakugo and uhhh, yeah, he's a lovable prick who only gets better as the anime/manga goes on.

You bring up Negan though, which.. I feel like people were definitely put off to him in his introduction. So much that some have quit watching the series altogether because of him and his involvement in an iconic death from the comics and the show (which included another death).

The dude has a bit of a flamboyant chemistry to him, he's a jerk.. but he has this way with interacting with others that just is idk almost enthuiastic? He's super snarky lol almost like he's having fun being that way to others. He knows what he's doing is wrong, but he smiles and bears it because he genuinely believes what he's doing is what works for him and the community he's built over time. He has his moments in the show where we see behind that strong front and like he's just a genuine guy with a soft spot for children in general (despite a few attempts to harm a specific character, biggest flaw due to different writers with different reasoning but whatever lol). His character arcs are different in both mediums so I won't get into them, but he's still a stand out favorite for many despite what a jerk he is lol

My fav scene, but woosh added bc its even funnier

[Iris-Grimoire]

This is what bothers me so much about people who go "if you like X Villain you totally condone their actions" on tumblr or twitter. Hell no, I WANT to see that guy's ass get kicked at the end. But, it's a fake story, I want to enjoy how they get to that point and use their brains/brawn to make cool things happen and interesting problems for the heroes. Just like a main cast does not work if every person is sunshine and rainbows; you need the jerk or at least someone who's grumpy and aloof so the situation doesn't feel forced.

[GesuGesu]

I like mean characters if they're also smart?

This is recency bias for me so instead of Bakugo, I'll share my experience of Oma Kokichi from DRV3.

He acts mean, says horrible insults to others, and knows others hate him, so he does things on his own. Yet at the end of it all, he was the one who pushed for most of the truths during trials, because of his obtuse nature. He was the one who drove the other characters to realise the truth in the harshest way possible.

I love how he's simultaneously cute (by design) but evil (by personality). The gap moe is intense. A genius whom no one understood, but no one tried to understand in a murder mystery.

[jcmraz]

Bakugo is liked because he's given a reason to be the way he is and he grows as a person. The real moment that I grew to like Bakugo was last season when he was kidnapped and it was set up for a potential turn. But then he doesn't. And it wasn't a maybe he will maybe he won't. It was a hard line he drew. The people that thought that about Bakugo fundamentally just didn't understand him as a character. The same reason why people like Vegeta. There are a lot of great characters that you really shouldn't like in anime and stories in general because they're interesting to watch. Those characters are usually in some sort of moral gray zone and more complex than main characters tend to be. Most main characters don't have much moral growth in anime either.

[Prometheus]

@jcmraz

Actually, I was one of those who thought Bakugo would turn. XD

I’m learning a lot about character development in this thread.

[jcmraz]

Content warning a little bit just a heads up. It's not graphic but after I wrote it I figured I should put this here if you're uncomfortable with topics involving rape.

One of the more interesting characters I've read is one of the most detestable people in his first trilogy that basically the first book is a litmus test to whether or not you can handle him. Thomas Covenant from The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever in the first book is transported to another world and is very lord of the rings inspired. He's an angry person who's primary motivation is self-preservation. Early on he establishes a hard line disbelief in the world he wakes up in, instead believing it to be a dream or hallucination. He also rapes the first girl that's nice to him. And he suffers because of that decision for 3 straight books and as unforgivable as what he did is, as well as some of the things he does in the second book, if you are willing to try to understand him you can. Because there is a reason for it all. He's a leper and has lost feeling in his limbs, including you-know-where for years. It's the 70s america and he's been entirely ostracized from his community and his wife left him taking their child with her. When he gets there he's given a healing salve that cures his leprosy. He can feel again. And it scares the hell out of him because he needed to practice a certain level of vigilance before to prevent any accidental bumps or scrapes in the places he can't feel because his body wouldn't heal those places and he could lose limbs to gangrene, like he already lost 2 of his fingers. And then he feels arousal for the first time and he loses control. No it's not okay by any stretch and he pays for that AND his unbelief. There's a lot more to it but there are a lot of people that can't even stomach Thomas Covenant as a person and I can totally understand that. But there's a way to understand the causes and it IS interesting to watch his character grow and change as he tries to grapple and come to terms with his mistakes.

Wow, I went a bit more on that than I intended lol Sorry about that. It's an interesting topic and Having read that series there's kind of a lot to say about it XD

[IndigoShirtProd]

I think the variables that make a mean or villain-leaning character likable come down to comedy, camaraderie, circumstances, self-consciousness, competence and consequences.

Comedy: If their personality can be played for laughs or the character in itself is funny, the audience is more likely to like them.

Camaraderie: If the interactions that the character has with others is comedic or heart-warming in spite of their bad personality, the audience is more likely to like them.

Circumstances: If the character came from a harsh upbringing or are in a situation that requires toughness or underhandedness to survive, the audience is more likely to give them sympathy.

Self-consciousness: If the character can recognize their bad personality and work to better themselves in some way, the audience is more likely to like them

Competence: If a character is witty or intelligent and can outsmart other characters, the audience is more likely to like them.

Consequences: If their actions mean something in the story or result in a shift in the status quo, the audience is more likely to give them sympathy.

Liking mean characters without any of the previously listed tropes is possible, but less likely. The first character I think of when it comes to this trope is Cartman from South Park. Cartman's antics are troublesome to say the least, but they tend to be funny and show off his competence. And he usually gets some form of earned, unfortunate consequences.