When do things start becoming too preachy for you?

[vothnthorvaldson]

Ah yes, I should have added that I don't mind reading scenes where there is no consent, as long as the author doesn't imply that it's perfectly fine and/or have no consequences.

I do believe that art should not have boundaries, and because of that, I won't call someone out for writing scenes with 'suspicious consent for no reason'; however I hate reading these and do think they may hurt people: the readers.

[BlueWorldComics]

I never have a problem with things being preachy unless they are preaching something obvious, particularly with a "I deserve a pat on the back for this" vibe.

I really hate those memes that are like "A man should treat his woman with respect. Give her gifts, treat her like a queen, blah blah blah". Ooooookay buddy.

[azzy-m]

Anything that feels like the author is patting themselves in the back.

Bonus: Strong female characters specifically created for feminism points. Especially if the story literally has no room for gender politics, so it just feels shoehorned in the story. Especially if the audience is consistently being spoon-fed about how badass she is but there is not actual instances of this in the story. ESPECIALLY if the guy characters go "i am a non-toxic masculine that sips repecc women juice(tm) therefore i will not help you through this door" or something like that.

I don't know about y'all but I like my characters with FLAVOR and you know, CHARACTER. If the only trait of a character is "badass strong and likes to kick people's asses" then that's a shitty character right there my friend and you need to fix that

...No I will never not stop throwing shade at SJM books.

[CodeMonkeyArts]

yeah right there! I agree! There is...ugh...there is a way to show consent in comics and in writing.

Does the man or woman reciprocate kisses from the initiator? Yes.
Does the man or woman moan and whisper things like "This is so hot", "I've been waiting for this", "I adore how you touch me" in response to the initiator? Yes
Does the man or woman move close to their initiator and maybe switch up who is the 'aggressor' or 'take control' of the scene even if they didn't initiate? Yes

THOSE (and many, many more) SHOW CONSENT.

For me, I have to WORK at not showing consent. I have to write things that don't come naturally to me to show a lack of consent. I mean I don't mind, it's fiction, it's my story, but I am just flabbergasted that people think consent is hard to show without it being explicitly said.

It's not.

Just like how people can show a lack of consent without spelling it out ("She moved back away from his hands", "He turned his head away, ashamed of his body", etc), people can show consent similarly.

[nixxusnibelheim]

Generally speaking any current controversial/trendy topics will be perceived as too preachy even if it's done right, just because the spotlights are on these topics IRL, seeing this in a fictional setting kinda highlight it even more.

Usually when I hear/read key words that's being overuse and thrown left and right, in a comic/movie/serie, I walk away.
Comic plays in the art of visual storytelling if the author can't find a way to make their point visually every time their "message/intent" is brought in the story, they should keep brainstorming.
I can give it a pass 1 or 2 times but if it's constant in their work, I can't.
Atleast if they are going to tell instead of showing, they should use other words than what twitter fingers use

[CodeMonkeyArts]

Remember a lot of those early 2000 superhero films where they were forcing so hard to show a strong woman that they literally would write a caricature instead of...an actual character?

Like Elektra or (pukes in my mouth) Catwoman?

Or the 'super strong female love interest' who needs to be rescued ('Van Helsing')?

It was so weird, cause I watched Alien, Aliens, and Terminator 2 and those movies had strong women CHARACTERS (not caricatures) WITHOUT trying to pander to audiences...so...what was the difference?

They were writing characters to write characters. Not writing characters to pander to a base to get more money those greedy bastards.

[Zhengo]

When the writer tries to address modern social issues in a setting that lacks a background where this issue would come up in the first place. I've seen fantasy stories that try to address homophobia even though the setting lacks any homophobic context and it's just like...Does this writer know that homophobia wasn't even historically universal in the real world?

[CarltonIsaac]

Why do we read fiction, or watch a movie, or listen to music? For entertainment, to escape the tedium of reality for a while. When 'the escapism escapes' that's when things get too preachy and it's time to flip the channel.

[CarltonIsaac]

The 'Ma-Rey Sues' are on the warpath, no more 'Man' Solo Kessel Runs,

[indagold]

When there's an lgbt character introduced and everyone okay with them but that's not good enough.

something like this:

Random character: "Oh im so accepting of you, just be careful of the cake shop in town, the owners aren't very supportive of gay people, i'd avoid them."

Lgbt character: "YOU CAN'T TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE MOM! I DO WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT MY CAKES! CLEARLY YOU'RE NOT SUPPORTIVE ENOUGH I SEE."

Seriously people need to stop writing characters like this, it makes them look rude. I know its a weird attempt at showing social commentary but damn you need to dial it back.

[CodeMonkeyArts]

WHOA!

That is...that's just so out of left field. I am not really sure how it's effective commentary when it just looks like a caricature.

[indagold]

Worst part is i've seen several characters like this all attempting to portray lgbt people as positive .-.

[LunarSushiCat]

When ideology takes the centre stage,and everything else is just an afterthought.

[CodeMonkeyArts]

Agreed.

Whenever I start to feel like reality is seeping too much into my entertainment, or I'm taken out of the music or the scene because of it, I end up feeling tense, stressed, and angry. I feel like so much information is already freely available and being shoved into my brain that I really don't WANT it in my fantasy or escapism.

[Zhengo]

On the subject of social commentary, I feel like a lot of work these days that are supposed to act as social commentary are so...uncreative with how they're executed. They usually just replicate modern issues point by point into their stories, or if they're feeling reallyyyy out of the box, pull a simple "replace x population in this story with y population in real life" instead of creating an issue within their story that at face value does not exist in reality but would stimulate critical thinking and allow audiences themselves to link and interpret the issues in the story to real life issues.

Yeah, I know the argument of "people will be more impacted from a story than just reading an article" but if you're not going to address the issue in a creative manner in your story, then you might as well go the non-fiction route and dramatize someone's biography.

[skicoak]

I understand that it's jarring when done poorly but isn't the point of weaving ideology into fiction narratives to create an emotional connectivity to situations outside the viewer's norm?

[Zhengo]

I guess my main complaint mainly refers to fantasy and sci-fi works where there's not as much need to constrain to reality. I don't mind it as much if it's supposed to be set in a realistic setting, but in something that is supposed to be set in a world or reality different from ours it gets kind of stale when you run into space nazis in a sci-fi for the 123498961th time or have gender discrimination in a high-fantasy be another typical "women should stay in the kitchen" type of deal. There are more ways to make commentary than just replicating reality.

[skicoak]

I don't mind it as much if it's supposed to be set in a realistic setting, but in something that is supposed to be set in a world or reality different from ours it gets kind of stale when you run into space nazis in a sci-fi for the 123498961th time or have gender discrimination in a high-fantasy be another typical "women should stay in the kitchen" type of deal.

Understandable but the Nazi thing is probably more narrative shorthand than social commentary at this point. If they attempted to create something "new" casual audiences could glaze over from the world building.

Carnival Row would be an example of trying to replicate socio-political themes of a different war and it's giving some viewers fits.

[liann]

I guess this is why i dislike most pure evil villains. They seem like an easy way out instead of planning your villains and it gives you more time to make your chosen one protagonist preach about the righteous thing to do.

When it comes to sci-fi or fantasy, I'd love to see diversity mainly because climate and geography have different effect on people and their origins. I think skyrim did this discrimination against Dark Elves well without appearing too preachy. because it made sense in the lore.

---

Also, this is more common in action movies, but I'm getting tired of that "broken man protagonist who got his wife killed so now he's out for revenge" and that's his only personality so the movie can preach about how badass he is because he's an ex cia or whatever. Nothing softens his heart and every woman seems to want to fuck him. lol

[sarrowsmith10]

broken man protagonist who got his wife killed so now he's out for revenge

Agreed. Can we not fridge women just to give men a reason to fight?

"Fridging," one of storytelling’s most noxious tropes, explained