When starting a comic, Just Start Drawing or Plan it Out?

daeofthepast 2016-09-22 20:08:24 UTC #32

At looked at the structure and tried it. I have an outline. It has a beginning middle and end aaaaaaaa It's a very general and has some points that I'm not sure about but it feels very official now that I have the basics!! It feels like such a big step, thank you so much!

sarrowsmith10 2016-09-22 20:13:39 UTC #33

Bleed is the area where your pages get cut off during the printing process. To get borderless printing, the books are printed on paper then the edges cut off. It's not super exact, although some printers have smaller known bleed areas than others but...

The safe area is where you want to keep your text and dialogue inside so it doesn't get cut off or squished underneath the page fold or whatever. The Full Page is ideally what is going to be left on the page after printing, cutting and binding of the book.

If you are only doing digital comics, this stuff doesn't matter as much as webcomics can really be any size or shape you want. Like Tapastic is famous for its very long vertical comics that read well when you scroll up and down. If you are doing a comic like that, paneling with print format pages might not be productive.

SpavVy 2016-09-22 20:39:38 UTC #34

I'll add on a little something to what sarrowsmith had mentioned about the safe zone.

Like they mentioned it's not really important if you just plan to have it be digital anyway.

I found this and edited it to show what it means.

This is the type of manuscript used by mangka in Japan but American comic paper does the same thing it's just a little taller.
It is good to draw a little in the red area just in case, but don't draw anything
crucial in it.

scullpanda 2016-09-22 20:53:09 UTC #35

I think a bit of both is in order when planning a comic otherwise you get to a point where you just can't clearly figure out whats going on anymore which can cause plot holes , at least go into a comic with a semi planned out story . I find that works when your just starting sometimes people plan too much and psych themselves out into over planning and never start so a balance is good

spadesart 2016-09-22 21:02:31 UTC #36

Sure! Here's an outlined scene

Here's the script I wrote from it

and here's the final page

shazzbaa 2016-09-22 21:11:55 UTC #37

I had one instructor who described the three act structure as "closing doors" ----- the point where the protagonist realises that they can't just stay in their old life, but they have to go on this adventure, it's like you're closing and locking the door behind them so they can't go back to their old life. That's the end of Act One, locking the first door. And then the point much later where all hope seems lost and they have to find a way to succeed or else they'll lose something very important, it's like you lock the door behind them again -- they really can't back out now; they have to find a way to face whatever's stopping them, or else! That's the end of Act Two.

I like that description because it's really easy to accidentally picture a "three act structure" where all the acts have to be the same length, but a lot of times they're not!

Here's what my thumbnails look like! It's basically planning the page very tiny, so that you when you draw it at a large size, you already know how you want it to be laid out:

A lot of times I'll end up redoing these a few times, but they're very small and loose so that's not too hard!

Actually, if you look at my scripts, I'll also draw little thumbnails beside my script while I'm working, because it's much easier for me to imagine pages that way:

(I tend to write my script out on paper first, where I can be kind of messy and scribble things out, and then type it up once I'm happy with it!)

You don't have to make your scripts this solid if you don't want to -- but you can also make them much more detailed than this! It's all about what works best for you! Sometimes I'm having trouble scripting a page so I'll just draw a thumbnail first and figure out the script from that. Sometimes I have a page that just has "SOMETHING SCARY HAPPENS (maybe weird shadows??)" as the description for the entire page in the script, and I work it out later when I'm thumbnailing everything. You really don't have to follow any exact rules!

( @stnmaren's outline-to-script is actually pretty similar to how mine usually goes)

That is entirely up to you! Do whatever works for your brain. If you find that you're able to think better when you put it each chapter in its own document, do that! If you're able to get a better start adding onto the previous chapter, then do that!

I make each Chapter script its own document, because I don't script the chapters all at once -- I have the whole story outlined, and basically the way I work is that I work on revising the outline for chapter 4 while I'm drawing Chapter 3, then do page breakdowns (basically, a list of what happens on each page) and script chapter 4, then start drawing Chapter 4 while reading over the outline for chapter 5 and deciding if there's anything I want to change. And then after Chapter 4 is done, I'll start scripting Chapter 5. So for me it makes sense to start a new document for each one.

If you click on someone's name or icon, it should bring up a short description of them and have a button that says "Private Message," so you can just click that to send a message! If you click on your icon in the top right corner of the forums, it brings up a little menu, one of which says "Messages," -- you can click that to see any private message conversations!
I think by default you get notified when anybody responds to your private message, so you'll be able to see it that way, too.

zetina 2016-09-22 22:58:18 UTC #38

the fact that someone is targeting their charge is the source of conflict. as you explore the why's and how's, you're going to get a story (i guess why the charge is being targeted is the real conflict?). how the charge reacts to it, how the protag deals with it... so, yeah. have fun coming up with answers to these (and more) questions :'D

Ambat 2016-09-22 23:31:41 UTC #39

I'm probably a little weird to say this but I actually have been doing a mix of planning and spontaneous stuff and it's been working for me? Like when I started my comic, I made sure I knew the direction my story was going and what the end result would be--but in regards to planning every individual scene or action ahead of time, I'm kind of just doing it as I come to it. I feel like personally I'm the kind of person that likes to simmer and spend time with the universe I'm working with; it helps me understand the characters better and make choices that better reflect them and their story. I want to leave myself enough room to change things and mix things up as needed to better suit the characters and their stories, so while I know the overall beats I wanna hit, the in betweens and how I get to those beats are just gonna come as they come~

NickRowler 2016-09-23 00:01:33 UTC #40

I tend to avoid the outline stage and do most of my planning in the thumbnail stage, mostly because I work better that way (I prefer story boarding over script writing). I do come up with an idea in my head of what I want then I thumbnail it out. If you do not want to write a complex plan, at least plan out a full chapter before you start drawing it. This will help giver you direction, it will organize your work, and it will help you know how many pages you need to make to complete the chapter (and if you are working with a limited page count, it can help you plan the story around that).

I did try to write a comic without doing this and god it came out as a mess. So many things were brought up but never touched upon and the story moved too fast. Planning ahead could have prepped me to remove subplots that would not be used later and such.

Devika 2016-09-23 12:05:44 UTC #41

Glad I could help! And you have achieved a lot just by putting those three cornerstones down!

And remember that nothing is set in stone yet (; You can take your time to tweak and edit it as you come up with characters and the world around them, and feel what fits them and what doesn't. The first idea isn't always the best - sometimes it is, sometimes not.

As for the organization part, just to give you some ideas: I actually have the overarching plot/storyline in an excel document, horizontally the plot points, vertically I have rows for the description of the scene itself, what it leads to, etc. It doesn't have to be those things specifically, it's just what works for me. That way I can move things around fairly easily (like when I realize that a scene might not be a good pinch point but better placed elsewhere) and have a neat overview of the connections.

In the same document, on a different sheet, I have another grid: Horizontally the names of the parallel plot lines for the characters, and vertically a chronological timeline of who does what when, and what goes on at the same time. I got the idea from Rowling's layout, which she kept very simple. Here's a version cleaned up by a fan. [[Spoilers if you haven't read the books.]]

BUT. Disclaimer here. I'm writing a sort of mystery, which inherently is a complex genre. (Great thing to start off with, hah.) Think like British murder mysteries where you have about five suspects, a number of victims, and the detective(s). Not only do you need to have the hook, midpoint twist and all that so it flows nicely as a story, you need to know what all the characters are up to at every point in time so that you can place hints correctly to engage the reader, and so that the detective can solve the crime in front of everyone at the end making the reader go "aah so THAT'S what it was!" or "I knew it!". Plot holes are devastating in these kinds of stories, whereas a goofier adventure for example can thrive on the character interactions and the plot is less intricate. So keeping such close tabs on everyone's movements might not be necessary for your story!

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that I have a word document with the characters' wants, needs, backstory, personality, flaws, goal, motivation, etc. I don't know if I'm overly organized or very poorly organized with all these different documents, hehe.

KSlinger 2016-09-23 13:59:45 UTC #42

That's my take. figuring out every little detail before you begin can be suffocating and actually hinder you in getting started, but the degree of planning you are actually okay and can work with will be very personal. Don't be afraid to try both approaches (organic and structured) to see what suits you. There's no textbook guide to these things. Find your process and enjoy yourself.

daeofthepast 2016-09-23 18:36:11 UTC #43

@sarrowsmith10 @Savannah Ooh, hmm. Maybe I can make long vertical chapters, while still keeping in mind this structure?? That way, if I ever wanna make it physical, I can just kinda squish the panels closer together?? :3

@scullpanda Semi planned sounds good! I already have the first chapter somewhat planned in how I want the panels and things, but for the other chapters I might do some small thumbnails to test things out. My biggest problem is figuring out what lines they're gonna say and how they're going to be delivered. If feels like something I'll have trouble with, but hopefully it's something that just gets better with experience.

@stnmaren Thanks!! Looking at examples really solidifies the process for me. I'll test them out!

@shazzbaa Ooh, "closing doors." That gives me ideas for my story, haha. >:3 Also, ooh thumbnails = sketches, kinda. I get it now. Thanks for all the answers!!

@zetina Yesss, it's been fun. Though I still need to come up with the answers to some of those questions ^^;

@amberavara Yeah, I'm not sure how much detail I want to plan beforehand. I've got my main points mostly(though some are being altered as we speak), I can only hope that while writing/drawing, I'll get some cooler ideas!

@NickRowler I think I've got my first chapter pretty well planned- it hasn't changed from before I started this topic, really(just everything else lmao)- so maybe I can start drawing that and try to solidify the next chapter in my head as I do??

@aldesi Oh man, the plans are already changing, haha. It's like "what if this scene just didn't happen??" or "What if I spend more time on this scene??" It's fun X3

I'll try out the excel thing, it sounds interesting!!

@ScampiCub I'll take your advice because yeah, maybe too much structure would be bad. :0

Thanks for the answers you guys. It's been a lotta help!!

In other news, here's a sketch of the protagonist that I've drawn!!

shazzbaa 2016-09-23 19:37:50 UTC #44

Another option is to lay out your comic as "pages" with large panels -- and post them digitally with one page on top of the next page, so you scroll vertically. Pest Caravan is a good example -- it's big and easy-to-read on mobile, but you can take the long episode and chop it in half to get two normal-sized pages without having to change the art at all.

Absolutely! And if you ever have specific questions about dialogue or pacing later on, feel free to ask here on the forums! :>

daeofthepast 2016-09-26 04:55:24 UTC #45

That sounds like a good idea! Having multiple pages on top of each other seems to be my aesthetic, haha.

So I've read the JPG vs PNG comic by the Staff, but I'm still not sure which would be good for my comic?? It says gradients and not a lot of text for JPG, or hard edges and text for PNG. But I want mine to have hard edges, color, some gradients, AND text???

SpavVy 2016-09-26 06:15:44 UTC #46

I always save mine as PNG whether it's color or black and white and I save it as 600dpi. My illustrations can get very colorful, filled with gradients, and they come out just fine. What you could try is have two copies for one of your pages, one in png and one in jpg and see if you can tell the difference. If your still not sure you could try to add them both in an episode, then click preview to look at them both and decide from there.

gateofselidor 2016-09-26 10:39:47 UTC #47

Tapastic's JPG compression isn't very friendly. They knocked the quality down considerably a few months ago. If you have a comic that's purely in a painterly style, it will probably be okay, but otherwise definitely stick with PNG.

SynergyEclipse 2016-09-26 15:37:23 UTC #48

With a script or an outline, you don't have to have every single detail planned out and completely adhere to it. As you're drawing the pages, some good ideas for dialogue or actions that you didn't think of before might pop up, and you don't have to disregard them because they weren't in the script or outline. I write the script before I get to the next story arc, but remain open to the idea that the script isn't completely finalized. The script still guides me, but I sometimes improvise dialogue and actions, or they come to me as I'm drawing the page.

Spinester 2016-11-22 18:35:01 UTC #49

Plan it for sure. If you don't you're basically just putting a first draft out there. First drafts are first drafts for a reason, they are very rough around the edges, often too wordy and don't flow as well as they could.

MrSecond 2016-11-22 21:29:11 UTC #50

As everyone has stated already, if you're going for a narrative-driven comic, you NEED to plan it out and have at least an outline of what you want to say.

May I recommend some books regarding storytelling to help with the planning?

"Save The Cat!" by Blake Snyder. this one will mainly teach you about story structure. something similar to the "The Hero's Journey", in the sense that the book talks about story beats that all movies follow. of course, you don't need to follow the exact path the books suggest, but if you don't have much experience on storytelling, it would be wise to stick to this method until you develop more skill.

The next book is "Invisible Ink" by Brian McDonald. This one is about the importance of the Theme in your story. all great stories are remembered because they had something to tell us. this book will teach you to use your theme properly and avoid unnecessary scenes, characters or lines.

StevenDacasin 2016-11-23 08:37:31 UTC #51

It depends. For gag comics I think you don't really need to plan it out because there's no story really told. But for story comics that have plenty of events and details than those definitely need some planning.