Why do CGI comics exist?

[TristanJensen]

Do you ever have those ideas that seem like the greatest thing ever and you make it and feel sorta proud of it, but then you look at it a week later and crawl into a little ball and wonder why your mind and hands would betray you in such horrendous ways?

I think that's whats going on with those and the people who make them just need some time...

[ToonDoctor]

Instead of bashing 3D art users, perhaps offering to help them learn about design would be time better spent. I don't use 3D but it is a legitimate way to create comics. There are no rules about what media to use for comics. And to say that 3D web comics should never exist is a weird argument coming from an artist. Artistic expression and freedom means stuff we don't like can exist too.

[marygold]

There's already a thread about why they exist, but me being the technically uneducated person I am, only came across this kind of thing two months ago and wants to know how people use the software. I don't like this style very much, but what I do find amazing is that people have to position things how they want it, which I'm sure is a lot of work, or do they? I know with drawing you can literally just out on paper exactly how you want your subject to look, but I'm assuming in CGI software you're just given a model in standing position or something. Are there basically a thousand different joint or turning points that the user will have to manipulate in order to get the perfect pose? If that's the case, props to those users for all their accuracy. I could never do it.

[zelkats]

I've never used CGI comic softwares such as ComiPo but I assume the character models have rigs that you can manipulate and pose them however you want. If it as simple as the rigs on the 3D models in Clip Studio Paint, then it can be surprisingly easy to pose them. No complicated stuff like having the choice of using IK or FK handles.

There are people who also create comics and animation using Clip Studio's 3D models. Some even create their custom environments and characters use Clip Studio Modeler. Also, Celsys sells this small robot-like device called Qumarion that you can pose physically with your hands and the pose is applied straight to the 3D model in Clip Studio Paint, Clip Paint Coordinate or Clip Studio Action (and Maya and 3DS Max, if you buy the full package and recieve special plugins). It makes posing and 3D animation a lot more faster and easier but sadly it's only available in Japan for now.

http://www.clip-studio.com/quma/en/

[UzukiCheverie]

Think of them like puppets. 3D models are built on wire meshes (sorta like when you make something out of paper mache - you start with a base to build the paper and glue off of) and have vertices, bones, and other adjustable joints that allow you to move and manipulate its form. The models grow in complexity and detail as the polygon and pixel count grows (polygons are what all models are made out of - even circular ones).

Of course, 3D models aren't moveable at first. This is where rigging (one of the most annoying things in the world IMO for 2D and 3D) comes into play - taking the model and giving it joints and bones. Models don't come with these automatically, so you have to determine where these points will go and how they will properly move without distorting the form (unless you're using premade models). Rigging is important even for still images like comics.

If you ever want to mess around with 3D models and objects and learn how they work, I'd highly recommend downloading Blender - it's a free 3D modeling program, and has quite a bit to offer for a free program (it's also open-source!) It's not as advanced as Maya, but it's definitely good for people starting out (and still has a lot of great tools even in comparison to its costly counterparts; with tons of community and professionally made tutorials to find online as well).

[apurviance]

Some people has have limited motion or pain in their hands. Making 3D comics can be more comfortable than drawing.

[mariusthered]

well reading this thread has made me feel welcome, i now understand why my comic has never really had big numbers fans on this site. I could go into a rant but why waist my time typing, instead i will simply say if you think using the software is easy try it. yer popping a few figure on a scene take a few minutes but try doing a complex scene with lots of tiny props in the background and perfect lighting and materials that look right. it can take hours to get one picture correct. My biggest gripe with 3d software is people who have abused it and made crappy porn, this stuff has so many uses and people really should try it before they attack it.

[scythe]

Thanks for posting. I wasn't exactly sure what the OP was talking about. I mean, I've seen plenty of comics where 3D has been integrated successfully. I myself use poser for reference, which I don't think they were talking about.

From what I can see, it looks like the issue is, it's still new technology being used by amateurs. I was a rollerblader back in the day, and the no1 criticisms we used to get from skateboarders in the early 90s was that we had no style, that having our wheels strapped to our feet was cheating, and that what we were doing was too easy.

And they were right. If I ever look back at those first videos from rollerblading's birth, we looked awful. But we got there in the end, developed out own style and culture, added technicality, and even surpassed skateboarding in many ways.

I think that's what's going on here. You don't measure something by how easy it is to pick up the very basics, you measure it by its potential, and looking at what 3D artists have been able to do with animated movies over space of just a few decades, I think it's just a matter of time and improved technology before this medium takes off.

[isaacfriedman]

I've been using Cinema 4D, Sculptris, Maya, Poser Debut, and a couple other software for almost two years now and I still struggle to design even the most basic monster, but there are so many dozens upon dozens of programs that allow for basic human modeling and many allow for exportation in the form of files usable by most of the aforementioned software. in two of those animating/modeling tools, lighting comes in so many beautiful presets that are only a click away that it's absurd that so many poorly lit or completely matte comics exist. I'm sure yours is fine based solely on the amount of work you claim to be putting in, but I'm referring to the ones that are made by people who view CGI as a cheap, easy, and quick way to get around a lack of talent (basically the same way CGI is used in amateur animation contests).

[mariusthered]

point taken but blaming the medium for how it is being used is offensive to people who have dedicated parts of their lives to using it. I have been using poser since 1995 so you can forgive me being defensive about the work I enjoy.
People have to learn and the best way for them to do that is to read their work and give feedback. I have read and seen comics on this site that frankly the artwork was appalling but the story was good so a gave constructive advise on how to improve. and even so why should people who have no talent for drawing not be allowed to use software to make comics, writing is just as much a talent . some people just are not born to draw or mess around with bs shading (a part of art I hate)

enjoy the stories dont victimize the medium it was made with.

[PotooGryphon]

Agreed.

There's been many cases where artists get annoyed with writers that post "seeking artist" threads, because these writers won't try drawing their ideas themselves. So if a writer resorts to using 3d software to tell their story/gag, they shouldn't be shunned for it.

Comic creators shouldn't victimize each. We each have different methods and the variety is what makes it so great.

At my day job, I use a 3D software called IClone. It's very straight forward 3D animation software to the point where I can't model in it. My company buys models and assets to use in the program, much like buying istock photos and such. I really can't stand it and would prefer working in Maya, however that software is too expensive for the company to justify one animator to use on strict deadlines. So, ya know, I get why these programs exist and they do have a genuine purpose and the people that use them aren't any less a creator for using them.

Actually, sometimes working under limitations yields the most interesting results

[Kura]

I think I few people are missing the content of the original post and unintentionally going off topic or on tangents. OP was NOT talking about CGI comics in general. They were talking about the very specific amateur branch of them.

Not saying I agree with OP, I've already stated my opinion regarding the matter, just that a lot of people have misunderstood the actual original topic and a LOT of this ranting could be avoided if they realised that.

[CelestialNavigator]

Because reasons and people liking 3D stuff.

[69Michi]

If you want to try out 3D model, I recommend Design Doll. It's a posing 3D model thing that you can try to play around with the model's pose and change the camera's angle to see how they look differently. I personally use it to get a better grip at posing for my own comic.

Some 3D programs are hard to work with like you would expect. But I have fooled around with Comipo myself and that thing is- as easy as you can get. You have background asset, you have panels asset, you can customize your model with different hairtstyle and clothes, then you just have to drop them and throw them into the panel, a window with all the pose you want will show up and you can just choose from there before changing the camera to suit your need and VOILA. That's the kind of program that require little to no effort at all imo

[jonufele]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Stober]

@isaacfriedman Thank you for this topic!
I’m right now working on a CGI Graphic Novel and all I read here, I think is a really helpful conversation
with a lot of constructive criticism. Seems to be a great community here @tapastic. I made my thoughts
about CGI Comics since I started with my project 2 years ago and I think, maybe it’s interesting to share.

WHY DO CGI COMICS EXIST or HOW TO PROVIDE THE REALISTIC STYLE OF COVER ARTWORKS
THROUGHOUT AN ENTIRE STORY?

I started with a simple question: Why is the discrepancy between the Cover Art and the actual art content in
comics still there? In most Superhero Comic Books when I compare the front cover with any full page splash
screen, or the overall artwork inside the book at all, I clearly can see the differences in style and in the amount
of details. I know, there are strong reasons for this, one is timesaving, like less details are providing faster production
and another is the level of abstraction the creators want. And that’s great! All creators of sequential art need
to find there preferred ways of visualizing there story’s. But why aren’t most of these comics holding there
advanced amount of details of the cover artworks throughout the story, when there is something like CGI
and 3D Environments?

That brought me to another question.
DO CGI COMICS REALLY EXIST?

When I read your topic I was kind of surprised, that there are only a few examples out there of what i think meets
the definition of a CGI Comic. Sure, my personal affection with highly detailed artwork plays a big role in this
But beside the questions of styles, there is the craftsmanship of how the artists build the underlying structure of
the images. In most cases when professional comic creators use 3D Software, to build environments or characters,
the final image is still a collage of different techniques and multiple images. Almost every comic is in part a mashup.
A layering process where images, words and all kinds of graphical storytelling tools struggling with the gutter.
I think the biggest differences between traditional comics and CGI comics are the workflow and the reality of a camera.
Because it changes the source image.

When I started to build my first characters and the first set’s, I realized two things. First that I was building something
that was more like an animated movie and not necessarily the foundation for a still image, and second that I’m not the
movie guy. I’m a comic guy and I wanted to tell an epic story without any restrictions or visual limits.
A fully 3D Environment provides all that and if so, then CGI Comic means for me:
Picking stills from an animated movie environment ( that you need to build ) and transform them into a of sequential piece of art.

So I changed my workflow into something that actually gives me the full control over my scenes.
Great Lighting, advanced Camera views and to tweek it a little bit more - Atmosphere and Gravity.
I’m thinking sequentially but I also want my characters to appear in a realistic world, where I’m able to work with my characters like
a movie director works with his cast on the set. There is no layering in the source images. Every image is a photography.
I think that’s a real difference in perception.
When the Characters really appear before the camera, on set, under physical circumstances inside the 3D Application,
it also changes the way of working with storyboards in the first place, because the workflow integrates the storyboarding process
into the actual shooting.

So, I hope it’s ok to share a stream of conscience

Here’s a prototype scene. ( As a new user I only can put 3 images inside this post, sorry for that ) Feel free to comment and if you are interested in the ongoing production find me on twitter. #amokcomics

[punkarsenic]

bc theyre easy to create and these sites are largely populated by children, basically.

if it was a growing trend in professional comics, or people started taking it seriously, id be concerned - but right now its kids and beginners using relatively new technology to express themselves. its not that deep.

[annwik87]

Let's not forget that a big part of comic-making is to have fun. I'm one of those people who actually use comipo creating my comic. I had an old weebo-script sitting in front of me and when I found out about this program it gave me a laugh(but it made me interested) I started using it and it was super-fun to use. It was also pretty cool to see the story finally being visualized.

Of course traditional art beats the hell out of comipo and such and I know that people like art much better. But I got to tell my story, it is fun and I'm happy so there is really nothing wrong with it. And people who don't like it can just skip reading those types of comics - no bigge

[dracoplato]

I don't make my comics with Comipo but I do own the program and think it's really neat. I remember we needed to make a page of rules for something and instead of just having a text list we used it to add some imagery when nobody really had time to draw images for it. In that sense I think it's very useful. My biggest complaint about the program really is that it doesn't have a larger library of resources to use for character customization and costumes so it's very limited in that regard (even tho I know there are fanmade resources that can be added to the program). But I think the technology is awesome and has a lot of potential for what a similar program with better character customization might be like in the future, and that excites me to think about.

More on the topic though, even though I draw my own comics I don't enjoy drawing and it's incredibly difficult for me. So for someone else that isn't willing to do something they don't enjoy for 15hrs a day everyday but still wants to make their own comics they definitely should be able to in any way that they want to. The love of creating stories should not be limited by a style preference.

[shaneoid77]

I think Miracles is a good example of CG art working well in comics. Sometimes I think CG art needs a bit of post-work, but I'm in total agreement with @ToonDoctor on this