Why do people hate Rey? ;_;

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Up until TLJ being a Jedi master or even a Jedi you had to been born with the ability. And if you weren't it was a crap shoot if you could learn.

Okay...so what you're saying is that it's still possible for Rey to be gifted with the force even without having Jedi parents. Unlikely, but still possible. So the backstory is valid.

As far as I know, the Jedi are an organization, not a race. Her parents might well be nobodies...or they could be distant cousins of some Jedi master, if you insist that she has to be related to someone with talent in order to have her own. =/

Not all great Jedi are famous. Not all great Jedi stay with the order. There are plenty of ways to make the current explanation work even with the limitation you've imposed on it.

Or, like I said, she could just be a random prodigy. Like, in real life, is every genius born to genius parents?? Why this insistence that she has to come from 'somebody' in order to be 'somebody'? It's a little unsettling.

[fattackycats]

Then complain about the writing and leave the character alone. It's possible to have a story in which decent characters aren't used to their fullest potential, or are handled badly. If people's main problem is with the story, then Rey shouldn't be singled out the way she is. There's more to the writing than just her.

What? No. The character IS the writing. Why do you make it sound like she's a real person?

Honestly, Rey is literally just a female Luke but him at the end of his training, with no challenges or experience to backup how she got to be so strong. She's like if you were to start a new game but input all the cheat codes to make it to where you can never lose and can breeze right through the story with no consequence.
There's tons of comparisons of The Force Awakens as being a rip-off of A New Hope. They are very similar.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

You have to discuss the character in purser to discuss their writing?

I'm going to assume you meant 'in order'. And I agree. But I think, in that case, the discussion should be more varied. For every Mary Sue, there's a whole host of enabling characters and situations that allow her to always shine no matter what. No one can be a Mary Sue in a vacuum.

And, yet, all I hear about Rey is that she 'wins at everything', 'she's overpowered', etc., without any discussion of what she's actually winning or who she's overpowering. I think this is the reason why people forget that Kylo Ren was injured in that battle in the woods...they're so focused on proving that Rey is 'too much' that they aren't even considering the context anymore.

That's altering the lore of what SW had set up previously only to make an exception for the new lead character.

I NEED THIS EXPLAINED TO ME IMMEDIATELY

What? No. The character IS the writing. Why do you make it sound like she's a real person?

Crafting a character is fundamentally different from crafting a story. There are different demands, different skills you have to learn...besides, I've always thought of characters as people; maybe that's why I separate the two. '_'

She's like if you were to start a new game but input all the cheat codes to make it to where you can never lose and can breeze right through the story with no consequence.

Exactly what has she 'breezed through'? I keep asking these questions but no one is answering them. The only thing I've gotten was that Jedi mind trick thing, and if that's basically it then I think my original post had the right idea. =/

[vfinnigan]

That, and Kylo clearly had no intention of killing her....

[vfinnigan]

Aren't you the one who complains about SW lore being disrespected, yet don't know that Kylo Ren's grandfather was Anakin, not Luke?

[fattackycats]

Whoops, type-o. Sue me. Point still stands. You know what i meant.

[fattackycats]

...what???? Go re-watch that scene.

[vfinnigan]

Children are also good judges of character, and they don't want to dress up as someone lame or stupid who's had everything handed to them. They want to dress as a character that resonates with them and one they can admire. And if that character doesn't resonate with you, that doesn't make them objectively poorly written or developed. It just means that you're not the character's target audience. And that's fine.

By the way, the funniest SW cosplay I ever saw was a two year old girl dressed as Kylo Ren... with a Disney Princess tiara.

[TAMAnnoying]

Sorry I’m tried of fighting with my phone. It auto corrects everything and sometimes I just have to give up some battles.

As for the rey argument I just say you need to find people who actually want to dissect the writing. The link of the YouTuber mauler I linked goes into an in-depth critique of TLJ for Five hours and not only dose he point out flaws he also gives ideas on how a writer could have fixed the problem or done it differently.

I could go one for hours for each reason why it’s bad that she’s overpowered and how it breaks the univers but honestly I am aware I’m not that good at the English language or getting my thoughts in order (dislexia and adhd are bad combos) which is why I love looking for reviewers who are exceptionally good at making scripts for their critiques to help me better organize my feelings. We have to break down rey to talk about her and hell even if she WAS a real person I would still be harsh about it because as someone who works in a doctors office. Mistakes and fuck ups can ruin people. So yeah I’m gonna tell rey why she is too overpowered and how it makes her a bad character if she dosnt just destroy the bad guy space ships with her mind if she CLEARLY has the power to not only do it but survive the vacuum of space considering Leia (someone who has been confirmed by the writers to also have no training) can do it. This shit is important for writing. I also treat my characters like people, I chastise them when they act out of character and ask them wtf just the same as I would my friends and coworkers cause being a chess piece for a bunch of writers is not good

[AceRagz]

Because that was just how it was until TLJ. The only nobody that became an insanely talented force user was Anakin but even with that Lukas turned his mother into the Virgin Mary and Anakin was Jesus...(someone should have been keeping an eye on Lukas' insanity at the time). Rain destroyed the mythos by making it so everyone could be a Jedi in the TLJ. The scene were the boy at the end force moves a broom made me roll my eyes.

[SleepingPoppy]

They're not perfect, but I like Rey and I like the movies.

[fattackycats]

I would accept Rey as a good character if they actually showed her learning to do amazing shit. But they never explained or showed her LEARNING anything. She just does it willy nilly and we are expected to believe that she just can? How can she speak wookie? How could she re-wire and fly the Milennium Falcon? Why did Luke's light saber call to HER of all people? It's never explored. She bested Kylo Ren in battle (even Finn couldn't defeat him when Kylo was injured..Finn, who is already a trained storm trooper and probably has more combat experience than Rey), she bested Luke on the island and could have killed him, she killed a few of those red soldier guys that worked for Snoke without but a scratch on her arm. How? It's lazy.

There's some things she breezed through, or rather could do without any explanation as to how.

As for Kylo being injured, FINE. I still disagree (having re-watched that scene). But I won't beat a dead horse on this point.

[vfinnigan]

I have, many times over. If he was out to kill her, he wouldn't have offered to teach her. This was in stark contast to Finn, who he very nearly did kill.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Sorry I’m tried of fighting with my phone. It auto corrects everything and sometimes I just have to give up some battles.

Understandable. ^^;

if she CLEARLY has the power to not only do it

I...don't think it's THAT clear that she can destroy a spaceship with her mind. So far, the biggest thing she's used the force on were those boulders, and that was at the end of the movie, so it was too late to expand on it then. I'd love to know what you're basing that assumption on...

So yeah I’m gonna tell rey why she is too overpowered and how it makes her a bad character

Please do so. That's all I'm asking from anyone in this thread. XD

Because that was just how it was until TLJ. The only nobody that became an insanely talented force user was Anakin but even with that Lukas turned his mother into the Virgin Mary and Anakin was Jesus...(someone should have been keeping an eye on Lukas' insanity at the time).

So...it's automatically bad because it hasn't been done before?? Not even that it was not possible before, but that it simply WASN'T DONE??

And then the only time it was done it got retconned to maintain the status quo??

Not exactly strong arguments...

[AceRagz]

I never said it was retconned. Lukas revealed Anakin to be a nobody in one scene and a few later his mother says he had no father that she got pregnant even though she was a virgin.

[fattackycats]

Look, SW isn't perfect. It's got issues. It's a glorified space drama. The fandom of SW has always been predominantly men. Disney is changing that without understanding that the target demographic for star wars was for whoever wanted to like SW, regardless of sex or whatever. SW was already for everyone so why treat is as though it's just a man's power fantasy?

Disney doesn't seem to get that the majority of critique will come from men because those are the people who have always bought movie tickets, therefore men being the majority of critics of the new SW. They're trying to shove identity politics into SW under the guise of "inclusivity" and "diversity" at the expense of just making a good story, and it is actually hurting them in the long run. Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I'm all for a female lead in SW, but the character of Rey is unfortunately used as a symbol for winning social politics and not for telling a good story. If you don't see it in the treatment and writing of the character, you can certainly see it in how people respond to the criticism of the character. Rey is bait, you are the fish.

@DokiDokiTsuna Respectfully, I, and a few others, have given you many reasons as to why we believe Rey to be a weak character, and yet you've denied them all or said no one has given you any evidence in this thread. Regardless of whether you agree with them, we certainly have been answering your initial post. Don't pretend as though we're speaking nonsense, it adds nothing to your point either.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I never said it was retconned. Lukas revealed Anakin to be a nobody in one scene and a few later his mother says he had no father that she got pregnant even though she was a virgin.

Um...I don't know how that explanation makes it clear that it wasn't retconned, but okay. My first point still stands though. Trailblazing is not a writing flaw, no matter how uncomfortable it makes the audience.

I would accept Rey as a good character if they actually showed her learning to do amazing shit. But they never explained or showed her LEARNING anything. She just does it willy nilly and we are expected to believe that she just can? How can she speak wookie? How could she re-wire and fly the Milennium Falcon? Why did Luke's light saber call to HER of all people? It's never explored. She bested Kylo Ren in battle (even Finn couldn't defeat him when Kylo was injured..Finn, who is already a trained storm trooper and probably has more combat experience than Rey), she bested Luke on the island and could have killed him, she killed a few of those red soldier guys that worked for Snoke without but a scratch on her arm. How? It's lazy.

There's some things she breezed through, or rather could do without any explanation as to how.

Hm. Interesting...
1. I dunno how she can speak wookie. But considering the diversity of her environment, it's not impossible. In her first speaking scene, she speaks both droid and...that other alien language.
2. Already mentioned this...
3. The story willed that one. And Rey being a 'chosen one' in itself is not a writing flaw.
4. Was Finn trained in lightsaber combat any more than Rey was?? He could have only worked guns and flown ships his whole life for all we know, and those skills don't necessarily translate to swordsmanship.
5. Luke was old and probably out of practice...although I don't remember Rey fighting him (I think I might, but...). I'll have to rewatch that. ^^
6. I think the story willed that one, too. XD But they're just fodder; in my book, that's forgivable.

[TAMAnnoying]

There’s actually a HUGE inconsistency with that scene and it’s one of the reasons that I came back to TFA and realized is actually.... pretty poorly written as well.

Dark side force users become stronger with emotions due to the dark side being the “easy” way to achive power. Kyle is clearly beating his wound in order to make himself stronger- at the very least he wants to WIN and one could say he was trying to offer his training to rey as a way to make her drop her guard. Rey is clearly more powerful then a Trained and EMOTIONAL dark force user on her first day of holding a lightsaber and THAT is the “show don’t tell” that she’s is an OP mastar of the force already. Which again.... would be fine if she had any consistent character moving forward.

[AceRagz]

Um...I don't know how that explanation makes it clear that it wasn't retconned, but okay. My first point still stands though. Trailblazing is not a writing flaw, no matter how uncomfortable it makes the audience.

You are completely ignoring what I said. If anything Anakin was trailblazing and in a bad way. He was the first to super powerful Jedi to be born from a slave mother. But then Lukas immediately botched it with the mediclorin thing and making Anakin into Jesus.

"And then the only time it was done it got retconned to maintain the status quo??"

Again I never said it was retconned. You assumed it was retconned. Anakin being revealed to be a nobody and then revealed to be basically from immaculate conception was all in the same movie. That is not retconning to maintain the status quo.

[fattackycats]

I could see that. I'm on the side that Kylo could beat her even with his injuries, but there's no convincing them otherwise.

In truth, I think the new movies aren't about Rey at all. Ironically, I think they're Kylo's arc, and maybe that's why Rey seems so weak to me, because they've done really well to flesh out Kylo and show his growth (or rather descent into the dark side), but haven't done much for Rey besides shroud her story in mystery. Kylo is torn between light and dark, his family, his guilt of killing his father. He has a direction to go.