Writing Punches, pushes and fights

[therosesword]

Some of you may (or may not) know from reading past posts of mine that I tend to choreograph my fight scenes (sword fights) I also do that to regular hand-to-hand scenes although I do not have a pugilistic background but I did take karate for many years (probably have forgotten enough to make myself extremely dangerous to myself.)

There are things I see in written fight scenes that usually make me sit back and wonder and know that the writer is not all that familiar with fighting. (I'm sure I've written more than one or two also)

For instance, yes, a short, petit woman can get a good nose bleed punch in against a bigger guy. I know, I did it to my sensei during a demonstration.

However... depending on what you're going for, the better punch (in my opinion) for a shorter person, man or woman, is the throat punch. Why? it is natural, when one has something flying at one's face, to turn your head. If it's flying at you from under you, you not only turn your head but you throw it back, exposing the throat.

The throat is a soft target that allows a hella damage. It also doesn't hurt (much) the defending person (or attacking). The face is a hard target and hurts like hell when you hit it, maybe not at the time depending on your adrenaline but trust me, it will. The same thing with putting fists through walls etc. (2 broken knuckles on a makawara board taught me that lesson)

Advice from the sensei,
1. don't punch the shoulder, punch through the shoulder.
2. Don't punch and see if it was effective, keep punching (that's just logic)
3. run when you can

I have a favorite punch that, yes, I have used in a real life situation more than once. (I used to bartend at a sweet little tavern next to a biker tavern but the biker guys looked out for us women bartenders in my tavern.)

Anyway... I call it the "George Gently" punch and you can do it either with fist or elbow. "George Gently" was a British police detective TV show. He was a short little guy and had a signature punch. It is, in boxing, an illegal move. It is .. tada A kidney punch. A woman's sharp little elbow and smaller fist, if your protagonist is a woman, can do some laying out of the bad guys with that punch. Delivered by a big guy and your opponent is usually out for the count.

The thing about these two punches are they are easy to describe and usually invoke a reaction in your reader, although not as visceral as a kick up the middle.

Pushing is a hard thing to do in a fight unless the other person is:
1. already off balance
2. has something behind him to get him off balance
3. you can hit him in the center of his gravity
4. drugged or drunk etc. and that's a whole new problem because they might be too relaxed.

A Calgary Flames hockey player was hated by a lot of opposing teams for the fact that, at 5' 6" when up against 6' 2" players he could knock them on their butts because he was at the right height to get them in their center of gravity and knock them off their feet. Person in question: Theoren Fleury.

If you're not familiar with writing fights etc. I hope some of this information helps. Also, sometimes it's fun to give your protagonist a "signature" punch.

Write hard, write true

[djourner]

As a writer I constantly struggle with this.
I have some action scenes I think are good and kinectic, but i have the little problem of... I am a fat blob who NEVER traded a single punch in his whole life... I know the techniques and the physics of fighting, but I never did it myself.

I generally take a lot of interest in real fighting, I made a point to study the correct use of weapons I depict in my story so that characters show their 'level of proficiency', as well as try and make sure characters feel grounded when fighting anyone... And even the more fantasy elements I apply that too... Like I remember looking at police dogs to actually narrate their movement to simulate a 'feral dragon' fighting a 'biped dragon' at one point.

But I do live in constant fear that someone with actual skill might come up to my story and go... 'nah this shit is all dumb and unreal' particularly because I made a whole thing out of making it not be that way.

[therosesword]

Your research and the fact that you know you haven't got the experience so want to write as accurately as possible should assuage your misgivings. (I must have had enough coffee, I'm using bigger words... hmmm)

I like the fact you watched police dogs for your grounding in the dragons. I think you're on the right path. A lot of times people combine no experience with no wish to do any research and that's where things can get hairy and you do have people let you know you're off. With a little luck they will be the kind of people who give you advice in a way that is helpful and not hurtful. I had someone correct my use of a dagger on something once and I'll always be appreciative of that.

If someone does tell you something is wrong, simply ask them for more information. They're probably be delighted to further the conversation and could be helpful at other times. Communication, always the key.

Write hard, write true.

[Kaydreamer]

This is really helpful! While most of my protagonists in my current project are either dudes or have powerful magic (and so don't need to punch), my next project has a diminutive female lead who, while a mage, will need to use hand-to-hand combat at times. My MO with her thus far is 'she's very hast and hard to hit', but that doesn't answer the question of how she would actually win against a larger opponent.

Knowing tricks such as 'punch the throat' and 'elbow the kidneys' is super useful! I imagine she's pretty full-bottle on all the effective areas to strike.

Would the solar plexus be a useful thing to hit as well?

[djourner]

Real combat principles can be applied to magic as well... Like if a character is casting a powerful spell and there is the whole 'direct it with your body' thing going on with magic like in popular shows such as avatar, a mage would need to learn how to keep their stance grounded while casting, or risk the spell being lost or worse, misstargeted and hitting an ally.

A mage can also learn physical weakspots to takedown opponents using less energy. Like why bottter creating a giant boulder to crush your opponent when a pebble to the throath will neutralize the target all the same, and likely be quicker, you know?

[therosesword]

Solar plexus is always good, but it's also expected unless you can get a punch in before anyone knows there are going to be fisticuffs. Also, what kind of shape is the opponent in. If he's got abs you can bounce a kroner off of...

. Also you have to take into account size difference. I'm 5' 1" which puts my shoulder, the brick behind the kick, at about 4' 5" in height. Say your opponent is 6' even. that would mean his solar plexus is probably (depending on how long torsoed he is) somewhat inline (I'd have to measure this all out).

Men will naturally bend a little (or a lot) if they think the family jewels are in danger. Not a good opportunity for a throat punch as their head is bent down which protects the throat. But then you might be able to get them just under the nose with an upward cut... which can kill, I think. Although, they may turn away to protect the jewels giving you a chance for the kidney punch.

In these kind of fights there are no Marquis of Queensbury rules.

I would go lower, especially around the colon, but not for the jewels because their reflexes are lightening there. A hit to the lower abdomen (colon etc.) on someone who doesn't have rock solid abs or is ready can cause anything from a ruptured intestine to internal bleeding.

Keep in mind women's hands are smaller. If you've ever had a cat walk across your boob (whether you're female or male" it hurts like hell. Same as getting punched by a child.

A woman fighting always does better with soft tissue and elbows and knees are best rather than trying to reach out. But that does put you in danger of a chokehold or being trapped. That's when biting comes into play and it's funny but if a man has his hand over your mouth they're not to please if you lick or spit into it. Best if you can barf on them. also in clinches there is the possibility of peeing.

Avoid kicking unless close in as once you've got your foot out there it can be grabbed. Leave that for the kickboxers who know what they're doing.

Another good thing is boxing of ears. That's a hell of a thing to experience.

Also, remember, arm length. If you have an older brother and he's ever held you off by just placing his hand on your head while you flail away you know it's not just comic relief in the movies.

If a women is unintentionally in a fight (and believe me, usually all your preconceived ideas fly out the window unless you're highly trained and muscle memory kicks in 90% of the time) but, for fiction's sake, her brain is the best tool she has. If she knows she's going to end up dealing with someone she needs to be super vigilant for tell tale signs, a slight limp, a tilting of the head indicating hearing problems or something else, maybe a bent finger indicating hand nerve damage.. Can she hear him breath, what is the quality of the breath. does he have a "tell" like they do in poker.

And never, ever discount damage (if it can be done) to the femoral artery and nerve.

Oh, and hamstringing, that's always a good one.

I'm really not a bloodthirsty person.

[therosesword]

always. Why go for the big showy stuff? A fight isn't performance art.

[Kaydreamer]

@djourner

Thant's all golden advice, cheers! I do account for some physical movement to direct magic. (Though it's more nebulous than in Avatar). That you mentioned about boulders vs pebbles rocks is really helpful! Earth magic is relevant to my current story, and I can certainly imagine my earth mage favouring precision over giant rocks. (When he's not using rune spells to just explode things.)

@therosesword
I am saving this to refer back to it in the future! It's all super helpful, thanks. And yeah, my girl is very well-trained, and being as slight as she is, she'd have to fight smart. I imagine her moving a lot like a dancer/gymnast, keeping her distance, dodging, before turning an opponent's momentum against them and striking at vulnerable areas where the opportunity presents itself.

It's obviously quite fantastical, but I want to couch it in some reality. It does make me roll my eyes when modern shows and movies have a tiny female character knock a full-grown man out with a single punch to the face through !Girl Power! when like... no, that's not likely. I wish choreographers would pay more attention to how difficult it actually would be for a small woman to fight a large man, because in addition to being more believable, it would look even more badass to have her actually have to fight smart and precise.

[therosesword]

Small and good is great, small and smart is better.