Your thoughts on villains. Tell me about yours!

[Stronas]

Is there any limit to how evil a villain should be? And do you think a story could work with the villain as the Main character? If so, how? Tell me about your villain!

(Thank you everyone for commenting, a huge part of why I posted this is because I had a extremely linear perspective on villains, and felt unable to create a interesting one. Each and everyone comment here has been outstanding, and I feel like a whole world of possibilities and different character approaches has opened up for me)
YOU GUYS ROCK! (Dont forget it!)

[Kamikaze]

A villain can be as evil or awful as anyone wants to create them to be, and villain's make great main characters (Breaking Bad, Dexter, and so many other series prove that point).

My issues with villains isn't their dastardly deeds, or their evilness, but...I just find a lot of them really really boring. Villains aren't interesting to me unless I can see how their warped world view works. I want to know what makes them tick, and how they justify what they do. Evil people RARELY believe they're actually evil. Characters that are villains are still characters, and have to have motivations and reasoning behind their actions.

One of the best villains I've seen in a GOOD long time was KingPin in Netflix Daredevil. He's got a backstory that explains his reasoning for keeping power, we see why he get's so scarily angry and what motivates that, and above all else he's humanized by his love for his girlfriend. He's not a mustache twirling Rocky & Bullwinkle villain - he's got depth and form.

A good villain is one you find yourself actually ROOTING for every once in a while. A great book for breaking down villains is Bullies, Bastards and Bitches by Jessica Morrell. We used a lot of her book for inspiring and fleshing out our current storyline villain Clay "Toro" Blackthorne, Carmen Maddox & the Razors (a gang they lead) in Kamikaze.

Toro is a guy who used to be one hell of a 'good cop' kind of dude. He pulled his gang up from the bootstraps and worked his way to keep them running even after they lost crucial financial sponsorship. However, over time, his sense of justice while very much still in place, has warped to something more akin to a dictator toward his gang and his territories. He's more interested in being in power, as that's how he thinks things will stay in balance and his gang can be effective, even though the more he struggles to KEEP that power the more things will spiral out of control. He loves his city. He loves his gang, they're a family to him, and he takes acts against them personally. His reactions to slights are brutal because in his mind the only way he stays in power is by pragmatically PROVING he can keep it. And so far that's worked for him.

There's a lot more to him as a character but that's the basic gist of it. :3

[starsyscomics]

I don't like writing "villains" because I feel like if you set out to write a typical bad guy character the character is going to be...typical. I don't feel like any of the characters that I write I classify as villains, but I do write characters who are more selfish than other characters, some who have more problematic aspects to their personality, or destructive habits. So, less of an entire character being "the antagonist" and more of some aspect of their personality or their decisions being antagonistic.

I'm really inspired by Miyazaki's feelings on good vs evil, and how a lot of his films don't have anyone that you necessarily HATE at the end of the story, just people with their own motives trying to get what they want (think Howl's Moving Castle). That seems like a much more realistic way of creating conflict to me than "THIS IS THE BAD GUY HE IS BAD. evil laugh"

[realSean_Murphy]

I refer the villain typically as the antagonist or someone with a view not in line with the protagonist.
The antagonist may actually just be in line with the protagonist as in not necessarily a bad person, just someone who doesn't share the same views.

[SpavVy]

Of course a villain can be a main character, Death Note (imo) pulled it off pretty well.
Light Yagami was a manipulative sociopath killing off criminals and L was a detective trying to catch Kira (Light) which makes L the antagonist to Light.

As for how evil a villain can be well I think there is no limit but imo it needs to be well justified as to why they are like this or else it's just boring. I like my villains being just as important and developed as the heroes.

My "main villain" Umbra I'd love to tell you about but it's major spoiler territory ;_;

[Stronas]

Thanks for the amazing reply!! I'm struggling with creating a villain but you gave me alot of Great points to take into consideration!

[Kamikaze]

No problem. I hope it helps

[Stronas]

I agree with the typical villain thing, thank you for the reply. Those films sound interesting, sadly i haven't seen them. There's also someone named Miyazaki that creates games on this subject: Dark Souls. Maybe you have played it? The lines between good and evil is blurred, and everyone just does what It takes to keep sane. Not Even the last boss is evil in any way, it's probably the least evil person in the game. Truly fascinating!

[Stronas]

Good point, Death note kicks ass (I actually wanted Kira to win, now that's one hell of a villain) and thanks for the answer.

[Stronas]

You're right, thanks for commenting!

[SpavVy]

He definitely is one hell of a villain, it would have been interesting if he actually won, things would be way different. I think it would have been really cool if they had made an alternate ending of Kira winning the battle. A lot of people don't give Light a whole lot of credit as a character which is disappointing me saying he's a bad character because he's an ass. Yeah he's an asshole who uses people and kills detectives, ruins lives etc. But that's what actually makes him interesting as a protagonist and villain I think at least. He had a goal and did everything he could to achieve it. But I guess that's just my opinion lol.

[heterodont]

I think in the traditional sense of villain/bad guy, Megamind could also be another movie where the villain is the main character! Don't quote me on that though.

Idk, I've always liked it when stories give reasons as to why bad guys are bad guys (not out of pure maliciousness mind you, my favorite is when the villain/antagonist thinks theyre in the right and theyre fighting to defend that thought kind of thing) I guess you could call them sympathetic villains? Either way I LOVE when stories give reasons as to why characters act the way they do, which I suppose any good story does?

The antagonist of my current comic isn't aware that what he's doing is wrong, hes being deluded and manipulated by a stronger force. The antagonist of my next planned comic is going to start off as the main character/protagonist, but by the end he's going to be the antagonist because of misconstrued beliefs and thinking what he's doing is the only way to improve things for the better (happily because of said misconstrued beliefs)

[Strontium]

I like villains who are unique. I'm tired of evil overlords and slimy crime bosses. Villains who have clear motivations and weaknesses are more interesting than villains who are evil just 'cuz. They don't even have to be really evil evil - like others said, it might just be someone who gets in the protagonist's way.

My story is framed around three bad guys. We've met one in story - a vengeful 1960's hippie ghost named the Age of Aquarius. She wanted to make Thantopolis look less like the commercialized real world that oppressed her so much. She wanted to bring "peace" but realized she was going about it in the same way that her oppressors did.

The second bad guy is the ghost of Julius Caesar.
I'm not kidding.
The third bad guy is a secret for now.

One of the most frequent antagonists in my most often used story universe is a extra-dimensional avatar of fear. We call him Frenzy or just Fear. Fear is amoral and seeks to make anyone's life Really Sucky. Because he's an avatar of emotion and not a person, he's less a villain and more a personified deterministic force. In this case, he causes anxiety, panic and mental breakdowns wherever he goes. However he's bad because he threatens people's livelihoods and their psyches so he must be stopped.

[OgonoArtFamily]

Death Note had a villain who was the main character so its possible to make it work(so check death note out).! But for me I tend not to look at my characters as bad or good--instead I see them as people with different perspectives and conflicting objectives for bad or good is all a matter of perception.

I'm gonna leave you a quote from George R R Martian the creator of the Game of Thrones series: "Everyone has good and bad aspects to them" and sometimes the strongest effect you can have is to readers is to have a relate able villain and hero. Some example of a relatable villain is Zaheer from Legend Of Korra Season 3(you can skip to season 3 if you want). But it all depends on which style you're going for even a "typical bad guy" could be interesting.

Also for my current series Osca which is on hiatus for now. Has a villain who's a sociopathic religious dude who uses various forms of manipulation for he understands the Psyche of people very well and uses compassion to get his way. It's more of a good on the outside and bad on the inside(if you choose to look at it that way). and that character appears half-way in the chapter

[jacintawibowo]

Is there any limit to how evil a villain should be?

I think generally not! There might be some limits for comics as a visual medium. Sympathy in some way or another is key to making a successful villain!

And do you think a story could work with the villain as the Main character?

Heck yeah! =D In the traditional sense, the "bad guy" is supposed to be more interesting than the "good guy". Bad guys more often than not are the reason the story starts (initiating the inciting incident) and definitely the reason the story has a conflict. The "good guy" is the person who endures the conflict.
Villains can easily be protagonists since the definition between "hero" and "villain" isn't actually different; a character who is willing to sacrifice themselves and/or others for what they believe in. It's who the narrative roots for that makes the hero or villain.

Tell me about your villain!

There are going to be several antagonists in Tales from the Well, but our first and current one is a Witch Shopkeeper:

She runs a shop selling potions but struggles keeping business afloat when a mysterious circumstance caused her to have a monstrous voice. She cooks several Potion Soup to get her voice back and beautiful again, only to fail and make her voice worse. Right now she's in the process of getting another soup ready, and this time she's eating our protagonist!

[starsyscomics]

I highly recommend his works if you have time to watch them, they're brilliant fantasy. I haven't played those games, but I'll look into it!

[AnnaLandin]

What a villain is like depends on the story/creator.

I personally don't really enjoy the cackling mad, woe-unto-the-world-for-I-am-eeeeevil type of villain - unless the entire story is set up to the overblown and melodramatic, in which case it fits. But insert that kind of villain in a story where everybody else has realistic motivations? Nope.

I just... I want to be able to understand why characters do what they do, and the same goes for villains. Nobody wakes up in the morning and things "Today, I'm going to be evil!". No, everybody wakes up in the morning thinking they're doing the right thing - or are at least able to justify to themselves why they aren't. They do what they do to achieve a goal, and that goal is rarely "let's be evil". Everyone's the hero of their own story.

A story with the villain as the main character would definitely work, but the creator would have to work hard to get it across to the reader - as readers, we tend to assume the main character is the good guy, and letting the readers know that they aren't can be a challenge.

As for your last question... I wish I could tell you about Grassblades' main villain, but I can't! XD It might spoil the story, since they haven't really shown up yet! So far, the main antagonists have been a.) a bunch of hapeless bandits, b.) a thing with a snake tongue and terrible teeth, and b.) Masahiro's own horrendously bad mood.

[gateofselidor]

I don't like to use evil as a starting point for villains. Evil is boring, and in reality most people are more complicated than that. My main antagonist is acting based on her religious beliefs, and truly thinks that she's doing the right thing. The mercenary who does her dirty work is mostly in it for the money, and doesn't think much of her motives, but he's sort of curious to see where it's all going.

[shazzbaa]

Now, I love me a good sympathetic villain, but that's not the only good kind. Not all villains think they're doing the right thing. Some of them know they're doing monstrous things, but feel like it's the only way to accomplish something they need or want and they're not willing to let that thing go. Some of them feel like they can get away with it because, heck, nobody's perfect.

Ain't no rest for the wicked, money don't grow on trees, etc etc.

I also think it's possible to have a completely unsympathetic villain that still rings true. Professor Dolores Umbridge, anyone?

I have one villain in a story I'm working on whose motivation can essentially be boiled down to "desperately wants to keep a cushy job he's not technically qualified for." He has a reason for the horrible things he does -- it's just that that reason isn't really sympathetic at all. You don't have to feel for an antagonist in order for their actions to make sense.

But other than that, I'm gonna have to join the "I can't tell you about the villain in my main comic because it'd spoil things" crew. xD

[Mharz]

I don't think I have ever encountered a story that has a villain who do evil things for no particular reason or simply they just want to be evil. There's always a reason why they do these things even psychopatic types has a story as to why they ended up like that. That's what make these "villains" interesting.

There is a quote by Shakespeare that says, "There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

These characters become "villains" because the protagonist and most people see their deeds as wrong or bad based on their own principles and perceptions. Plus they don't know each other stories which is why every faction believe what they're doing is right and the other faction is wrong. Everyone has their own sets of rights and wrongs and everything is basically just a conflict between different beliefs and principles.

As for The Angel with Black Wings, the villains currently shown for now are the classmates who are bullying Ray. Of course since I think bullying is wrong, I absolutely sympathize with Ray but what are those bullies think of Ray? Only time will tell.