A/B/C character is supposed to be the strongest

[69Michi]

Here is 2 opinions (1 rant + 1 question) in 1 topic. Well first come the rant:

So there is a comment chain on Youtube arguing over how Saitama (One Punch Man) is supposed to be the strongest man in the universe and how he would defeat Goku (DBZ) or Superman in a heartbeat. Then people come and disagree, saying Goku would blow up the Earth and let Saitama to die. But then OPM fanboys argue that Saitama is supposed to be a satire character that is stronger than ANYONE you throw at him. While I understand, I still disagree with this whole argument. OPM's world rules do not apply to DBZ's world rules, and thus it makes it invalid to say who will defeat who.

A simple example for this let's say, I have a character that is supposed to be the strongest being. He is simply just the embodiment of what you call overpower. He IS SUPPOSED to be overpower. He can control the flow of reality by itself which in my story is called "Law". There is law applies to everything in this world. It's written in the law that human ages, and dies, flowers bloom and wither away. So theoretically speaking, this character of mine would be able to defeat Saitama because he could simply alter the law and said "You have no power". All Saitama's power would be taken away. Do I think this is a legit fight? HELL NO that is dumb as heck. My rules do not apply to Saitama, and so my characters would have nothing over Saitama.

And with that rant ending, my question is how do you feel about this subject? Do you think it's a legit comparison? Also side question, how do you feel about an overpower character that is supposed to be overpower and special? Does it take away the fun of the story in your opinion? And what is your take on how to do an overpower character "right"?

Thank you for making through that wall of text, here is a cookie for you!

[VermillionWorks]

I never got this obsession with arguing over whether one character from one story could defeat another character from another totally different story. Especially when the discussion gets ridiculously serious. Who cares? I don't find it interesting even as a silly topic, really. It's like the old argument, "I bet my dad could beat up your dad".

Then again I'm not really big on any crossovers. XP Though I'd be more interested in hearing what these two would discuss than who can whoop who's ass better. .....then again knowing Goku it would probably just lead into a fight challenge anyway.

[heterodont]

I think it's kinda silly when people get into super heated arguments when arguing who'd beat who in a fight. I think it's fine if you're acknowledging the fact that both characters are from different stories with different sets of rules regarding powers - since it can be great fun to think of ways to not have the fight end in like 3 seconds because both characters are ridiculously overpowered.

I'd only feel bothered if an overpowered character was the MC and they didn't face any scrutiny or consequences for their overpowered..ness. Saitama in OPM has to deal with people not thinking he's as strong as he is or getting harassed by the general public because they think he stealing credit from other heros since he arrives, and leaves, fights practically unscathed. Same thing with All Might from Boku No Hero Academia, he has nearly the same powers as Saitama, but while he's universally loved, he can't be his hero persona for more than 30 minutes? an hour? at a time because of health issues.

I'm kinda on the same boat as you, as I have a character who's the god of time & space - and if he was really pushed to do it, he'd be capable of resetting the entire universe of my story :U he's cynical and extremely anti-social because of years of isolation, so it's not like he'd need much provocation to do it - however, he prefers to keep himself isolated and in his own ''bubble'' both figuratively and literally, so it's not like there's ever a potential for him to actually go ahead with the ''worst'' of his powers.

[shazzbaa]

I think Stan Lee has the best answer to "Who would win in a fight?"

That said, sometimes it's fun to think about. It can be fun for some, to go digging for canon details to support the argument for their favourite. I get a huge kick out of this kind of thing! But it's silly to think there's an Objectively Correct Answer you can convince people of.

The truth is more about genre and tone than powers. One Punch Man's whole schtick is that it's a struggle to find something that can even challenge him, so putting a character into OPM that could defeat him easily would not fit with the established tone of that story. It's narratively more fun if OPM man would win, which I suspect is the real reason that the meta-argument about Saitama being a satire character shows up.

how do you feel about an overpower character that is supposed to be overpower and special? Does it take away the fun of the story in your opinion? And what is your take on how to do an overpower character "right"?

My Little Pony actually has what I consider a really good example of this in Twilight Sparkle. Twilight is magically overpowered. I love the fact that she's introduced in Season Two with the line "I've just learned a new spell that will solve everything!" That's the most Mary Sue line ever and IT SUMS HER UP PRETTY WELL
The thing is, MLP is at its best when Twilight isn't facing a magical problem. We have no doubt that Twilight is more magically powerful than most things. But her usual problems are getting her homework done on time, figuring out which friend to invite to the party without hurting anyone's feelings, trying to resolve a fight between people she cares about. The fact that she's powerful enough to resort to Time Travel and Mind Control as solutions to these problems is usually more of a complication than an easy fix.

It's probably not the only way to do it, but basically the way I look at it is, if a character is overpowered in one arena, that's not the arena you're going to be able to ask a dramatic question in. Will Twilight be more powerful than this thing? Probably. Can Twilight be a patient friend? She has a hard time with that so..... I don't know! Will Saitama be able to punch the thing? Yeah, of course. Will Saitama be able to come out on top in dumb superhero politics? That's .... more up in the air.

[69Michi]

@VermillionWorks Ikr same. Your favorite character will always be the strongest in your eyes, it's like arguing over what taste better? Apple or orange. LMFAO They are not the same fruit, they don't work like that. If you have a good apple and a rotten apple, then sure, the argument will be valid.

And right, I can't handle crossover either. It breaks every canon information I ever know. It's fun to see your favorite characters from different series to interact, but it's no longer fun when you apply real logic to this whole crossover shenanigan on who is better than who :/

@heterodont Yeah, all people have for Saitama is that he is a "satire character" who is by definition should be able to defeat everyone that comes at him since his world is a parody world. But is Goku's world is the same as a parody world? Nope.

Oh yes, I do agree with you. Characters that face no struggle can make the story get boring really quick! In my story, said overpower character is sort of important, but the story is not told under their point of view. Plus it's not their power that is the highlight of the story, it's their development as a character by itself and their relationship with others that I want to focus on the most!

@shazzbaa YES THIS VIDEO. Thank you for showing me this video haha IT'S GRAND
And right, I'm fine with people digging up information to support their argument, but when they try to force the "reality" that "this character" is the best and will definitely win down someone else's throat, it's when I have enough of it.

I honestly lowkey love overpower characters. It's fun to see them being looked down up on but then BOOM THEY DEFEAT ALL THE THING AND NOW EVERYONE IS TREMBLING AT THEIR FEETS. But what I enjoy the most more is how relatable such overpower characters can also be. They also have trouble with relationship, with their lives, they also have to decide what to wear in the morning, what to eat for dinner. Thing like that just clicks very well for me and I love it :^)

[Kura]

I don't create characters thinking about how strong they would be outside of the story in other universes.

I did learn when I was in inkblazers though that my characters were more powerful than I thought or gave them credit for. As there was someone who had fun taking characters from the comics there and analyzing their powers and calculating their strength and force of their powers via the comic drawings and what was available in the comic lore (a lot of the comics didn't have explanations of the powers available yet)

In the end she would chart them in a strength/power type chart/standing with all the other characters she had analyzed so far. With the character she had used from my series actually ranking in the higher range of the chart, which is higher than I thought that he would, since some of the characters on that site could get REALLY over powered since a lot of the comics on it where heavily shonen influenced.

Additionally characters that utilized 'Toon Force' where put on a different level / chart than characters that couldn't, because they were just too overpowered compared to characters that didn't have it.

[69Michi]

That actually sounds like a pretty neat and fun thing to do and see the results of! I love stuffs like that although I know people tend to favor their favorite character and wouldn't accept them to be scaled lower than others or stuffs like that ;(

[indagold]

Arguing whose the stronger character reminded me of when I was 6 and fought dime store plastic frogs against my friends and it just ended in us squabbling who had the better most strongest frog.

I guess it's kinda hard to think about introducing omnipotent god or overpowered characters. A lot of people act like you shouldn't because it's the epitome of cheesiness. I think it's how much you milk it, how much it just ends up being a squabble of a bunch of children arguing over which character can kick another character's ass the best. I think you need to be more subtle about it, really subtle.

[LoboSong_Hitaka5Ever]

I don't quite get the argument thing either. It all comes down to people who have no chill when it comes to their favorite characters lol. And I agree, they're different worlds, so many attributes will be vastly different

As for your question, I am fine with all-powerful "mary-sue/gary-stu" (a term which I actually cannot stand lol) characters so long as there's at least SOME WAY to beat them. For example, Hidan in Naruto is immortal and the only way to prevent him from ever coming back was to decapitate and bury him so that he couldn't control the rest of his body. Although he's still alive and "breathing" he is defeated and can't come back unless someone digs him up

[Greg_Dickson]

Really, I just leave it to Death Battle and enjoy the result.

[NickRowler]

OK, this sort of reminds me of the time I was stuck in a car listening to two people argue about who would win in a fight Batman or Light (Deathnote). It was one of the stupidest arguments ever. In the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. You can make "what if" fanfics however it should be done for fun and not be some mind numbing debate.

[TACOBERTO]

1) I'd sooner see Saitama, Goku, and Superman on the same side than fighting each other.
2) It makes no sense to argue too seriously who'd beat who since their universes work on completely different rules. You'd have to decide which universe this hypothetical battle is taking place. I mean of course Saitama would beat Goku in the OPM universe because he's supposed to be stronger than EVERYONE. vice versa that wouldn't be the case I'm the DBZ universe
3) I hate OP characters, unless their powers have a severe flaw or reason why they can't be used to their fullest extent

[GesuGesu]

This is something that one anime critic/reviewer wished was addressed and attempted on within anime: A shared universe like the Marvel Universe franchise. It'd be interesting to see how characters would fit into that universe's laws and how they really would fare in comparison to other heroes. The only official cross-universe anime/manga series known to me so far is Tsubasa Chronicles & XXXholic, but that's more of character cameos than any real interaction.

On another note, Shounen JUMP often has JUMP special episodes that involve crossovers between popular series. I've watched the three-way battle between Goku, Luffy, and Toriko in one movie, as well as seen a Gintama x Sket Dance episode and a Toriko x One Piece episode. For Gintama and Sket Dance, they're both comedies with similar concepts so it was funny how nothing was really questioned, whether it was the aliens from Gintama or Switch's laptop voice from Sket Dance, both of which don't really exist in the other universe. For Toriko x One Piece, the Straw Hat crew just happened to land on an island, which also happens to be part of the Gourmet World that Toriko and friends explore. Not only that, the main characters share a trait of exploring and loving food, plus everyone in both shows is equally overpowered.

Only the 3 series crossover between Dragonball, Toriko, and One Piece seemed unfair since although Luffy and Toriko are strong, Goku can fly (which was pretty much cheating in the movie), and only Goku was involved in fights that levelled entire planets, while Luffy and Toriko's fights stay confined to a part of the planet.

I would really appreciate a few more solid anime/manga crossovers, but for now, I'm happy with the JUMP universe that really seems connected very well, especially in the VIDEO GAMES. (FUGGIN' UNDERWORLD/OCEAN&LAND/SKY layered world + dimensional gate warps!!!)

[AnnaLandin]

I honestly never quite got the whole "who would win in a fight"-argument - possibly because a.) I've never been much into mainstream superheroes, which is where this argument proliferates, and because b.) who can beat up who isn't really what I'm here for.

I like characters and I like stories. Whether Superman could punch out Luffy from One Piece isn't really relevant - and not only because it would literally never happen outside of crossover fanfiction.

Also side question, how do you feel about an overpower character that is supposed to be overpower and special? Does it take away the fun of the story in your opinion? And what is your take on how to do an overpower character "right"?

Well, it depends on how it's done. If it's just an attempt by the creator to make readers go "oooh", then no, I don't like it that much. If, however, it's integrated as part of the story, it becomes interesting! Take Dr Manhattan from Watchmen for example. He is vastly overpowered for the universe in which he exists - being the only "hero" who has actual super-powers. And his very existence within that story's universe triggers changes in the world; the race towards nuclear holocaust accelerates, other characters begin constructing weapons to counter him, some characters get caught up in the consequences, etc., etc.

Dr Manhattan is central to the entire story and the world in which he exists. He isn't just some dude who can punch out the sun who wanders in and flexes his muscles every now and then; his existence is crucial to the entire plot.

[TheVoidchildProject]

I enjoy "versus" discussions. Too often though they deteriorate into toxic arguments that take themselves way too serious. But as with lost things it's fun to poke and talk and analyse things that couldn't be answered outside of any such discussions.

As for the discussion above, that's probably one of the most classic ones. It's always the heavy hitters that are compared, which is less interesting to me. Give me a spider-man vs batman argument any day because those characters are more interesting because of how they're not OP and generally face tougher odds and have to think outside the box.

OP characters can be fun, but I rarely enjoy them as main protagonists. I've read some interesting superman stuff but mostly the value of this character is how other relates to an OP-character like him exists. Like how Lex Luthor argues that the man of steel disqualifies any other power by his sole existence and for this reason looks to disprove his OP-ness.

I think you can do characters that under certain conditions are OP but for instance at a heavy cost. I enjoyed Spawn when it first came out due to the limiting factor he had that the more he used his OP powers, he came ever closer to his own demise. That was an interesting plot device to me.

I guess OP to me is a character that doesn't have to deal with any consequences at all. Is argue that Home Simpson is OP because of how nothing negative ever comes his way in the long run despite a life-time of poor decisions (and yes, I understand that's part of the comedy, just for arguments sake though). Whereas if there was ever hell to pay for superman using his God-like abilities then he wouldn't necessarily be OP anymore. But he rarely has to face any hard-hitting consequences for just being the most powerful being (kinda) in the DC universe.

[69Michi]

@indagold LMFAO That was like my 11 years old with cricket fighting.

@Hitaka5Ever_LoboSong Ah yes, most often overpower character are associated with "marysue" and "garystue" because they are too powerful and have thing easier than others, but to me OP doesn't make a character overpower. There are so many marysue out there that aren't exactly OP at all in power, but more so in their personality LMFAO But I also agree that an all powerful character without any negative traits or drawback wouldn't be fun! I will keep that in mind : D

@Greg_Dickson Oh I used to watch that on youtube but every time I scroll down to the comments there are always butthurt people arguing "A should have won this" or "B would totally beat that C's ass" mmmm

@NickRowler OMG Batman or Light.... people need to be stopped LMFAO

@TACOBERTO RIGHT? The universe doesn't match at all, you can't just say that "Saitama is a satire character that is stronger than everyone in his parody world that is why he is the best" it doesn't work like that omg And I know aaa almighty character that has no drawback for their power can get boring really quick if the story focuses on fighting and their power alone. Although I feel like sometimes I can overlook it if despite having all that power in him/her, the character rarely uses it and the story more or less focus on their character development as a whole.

@Kimoisempai I quite enjoy CLAMP universe with Tsubasa Chronicles but it gets confusing quick LMFAO

Yes, crossover with characters from a similar concept world is crossover done right. If you throw a character in a parody world at Saitama from OPM, I wouldn't have too much problem since their world share similar concept, both are ridiculous. If you try bring Goku over to a normal world of Pirate and Devil fruits like OP while still having him retain all of his power from his own world... Oh man that get unfair quick.

@AnnaLandin Oh that is a great example! I actually also try to focus on the similar concept around my own seemingly overpower character. Thank you for the tip : D

@TheVoidchildProject OP character to me is just simply that they have power that is over-level anyone else in their universe. I often enjoy these characters if done right. My guilty pleasure is to see OP character that I support squish other villain that looks down on them at their most unexpected moment. (A good example of the OP character in my book probably is Rai from Nobless)

1- There is legit reason for his power. 2- He rarely uses it. 3- Overuse of his power cause serious damage to him (flaw)

[jmhenry]

First off:

saying Goku would blow up the Earth and let Saitama to die.

As a DBZ nerd, I can safely say that whoever thought this up has no knowledge of Goku's character. Vegita, maaaaybe, Saiyan/Frieza Saga Vegita, definitely, but Goku's more for fair fights and not blowing up planets.

With that out of the way...

how do you feel about an overpower character that is supposed to be overpower and special? Does it take away the fun of the story in your opinion? And what is your take on how to do an overpower character "right"?

If the character's power is handled in an interesting way, like there's a massive drawback to it, or like Saitama, it causes them suffering, then no problem. They could also be the godlike, OP being that never interferes in 'mortal affairs' like what you see in various Marvel/ DC comics that have those characters. There's really no way to make... any character "right" just interestingly written, imo. Otherwise, we'd all be writing similar characters because it's the 'right way'.

[blackopsracing321]

For me these what if fights are fun to think about and if you watch death battle you see they can result in some epic throw downs. As for people getting heated about it, it's all fictional so why get upset ;p.

And on the topic of OP characters no one in any universe is more OP than Superman. I can't stand this character but his writers made him a god among gods (I mean the dude can lift a book with infinite pages. INFINITE).

[mg78]

i bow down to the king saitama. BUT there s only one chara who can die, go to hell, then paradise, then come back because it's hated in the other life. the MAN: LOBO:

back to the topic.
no matter what.
fantasy got no unit misure, so it's all on what u want to believe. and if u do a chara, how much flow it can create (or u can create for your chara).