A Change in Perspective

[domisotto]

I've seen and used RET in action on my GAIA online writing group - both as part of NaNo and just "we're bored!" And we get people who come out of the wood work who don't normally post to give feedback on what worked, what didn't work, what was funny, 100% constructive and conversation building

I loved the threads on Wattpad where people posted last written paragraphs or opening paragraphs for critique (under 200 words), but it always required someone to remind people to critique a paragraph above, because, of course people wanted to just post theirs to wow the world, but not to pay forward, heh.

[DWaM22]

I've seen and used RET in action on my GAIA online writing group - both as part of NaNo and just "we're bored!" And we get people who come out of the wood work who don't normally post to give feedback on what worked, what didn't work, what was funny, 100% constructive and conversation building

Hey, whatever works best. Again, my ultimate goal isn't R4R, but get people to engage with other people's work beyond just all of us dumping links to topics, like most of the Novels category pretty much is. If this is the better way to go about doing it, I'm all for it. I dont' have enough experience or the foresight to know how bad some things can get; thankfully, other people clearly do.

The only thing I'd probably add to the etiquette would be prohibiting the same person posting an excerpt again until a certain amount of time passes, so they don't potentially completely fill the topic.

[domisotto]

From what I have seen, the "Critique the Last Few Para You Wrote" or "Post the First Few Para of your Novel" needs the following to be successful:

1. a firmly stated rule that you must critique the guy above
2. someone to enforce that rule (otherwise no engagement)
3. word limit--nothing kills the thread faster than a guy who dumps 600 words

[thedude3445]

I haven't had time to read anyone's stories on Tapas in ages but I do think the self-promo stuff here is almost completely useless and people would highly benefit from starting an actual book club, even if it's a one-off one-weekend event where committed people spend a whole weekend reading other peoples' stories.

[NellieVP318]

I feel like all the self-promo stuff is hard to keep up with everyone's stories. I'm gulity with the self-promo stuff but I think there should be a better way to organaize everything so everyone can promote their work.

I do like the idea of people reading the first chapters of other's people's work. Usually beginnings are what people get hook to certain stories to see if the pay off is worth it. It's a tough thing to decide.

[essem]

I've only been on Tapas for three minutes. Here are my two observations:

• The forums here are a breath of fresh air compared with the spittoon of social media more generally (incl. those places populated mostly by wannabe writers)

• Tapas needs either to promote itself purely as a forum for comics, or it needs to go and attract a critical mass of novel readers across all of the genres it lists.

[domisotto]

They already do. That’s why you see people getting 250 subs in a month because they hit the sweet spot and without the helping hand. That’s why someone who got 50 subs gets to 200 in one week after being added on staff picks. The readers are there.

But readers will never be distributed evenly between writers. Online is reflective of the creative sphere as a whole. 1% that have 90% of attention and popularity and the remaking 99% splitting—and not evenly so—the 10% willing to look beyond the top 10 lists or look for something of the beaten path.

It is what it is. Like in every sport, there could only be one champion, and the rest will be the also ran. And they can be at it for years, if they enjoy competing, even knowing that there always will be someone surpassing them, an old champ, the new talent, just never ever them.

Nobody would make readers read all books equally. You get your place on the fresh list here, visible for like 24-48 hours, which is by far more generous than you will have in most platforms.

The fact that Tapas is smaller is what gives a new writer a fighting chance. On a bigger site, you stand zero chance vs the heavy hitter that already have millions and hundreds of thousands of reads.

[rajillustration]

I see Read for Read as better than Sub for Sub, because there's no pressure to read, but I only do it if it's like...a critique thing or if I'm really bored. Tbqh I've only done it like 2 times. Otherwise it's still just gaining maybe a sub or two at a time. That's a lot of work for so little subs.

It's still best to go off this forum to do your promotion, except in the cases where staff are looking for works to put on front page lists. But those opportunities are few and far between youknow?

This forum really is a place to talk shop--and so I'd be down for a bookclub, but of books that have tons of readers so I could learn about what other people think works or doesn't work--so I could put those techniques into my own work. A book club to read stuff from other people on this forum--I've probably already read your work at one point or another.

[essem]

You're claiming there are as many readers of novels as there are for comics on Tapas??

[foxnflames]

Whatever we’re doing, sign me up. Feedback, critiques, reading, helping homies out, etc.

@IntoTheTempest what’s your story link it in your bio

[domisotto]

Nope, but there is a lot I’ve never had this many reads on my stories before.

[nostalgicroxas]

@domisotto @DWaM22

the way it generally works is as a round of sorts. In the thread one person will call for an RET and the group posts something, stopping at about 500 or 1000. Then as we read them, we @ the people and give feedback to alllll of them. So you get generally 3 to 10 inputs.
But this happens inside another thread rather than being a standalone. It's generally done with people posting and reading within 48hrs

[liamhernandezlucas]

I started a review train for comics once, and it was one of the most useful things I've done. I got some useful feedback and insights and a couple new subscribers.

It was pretty time consuming, since I promised to make sure everybody got at least one review even if I had to pick it up, but it was fun. It was through that that I discovered Aegis by Hexigate, a really underappreciated comic.

After that thread died, I started making a community driven magazine for webcomics and webnovels, and Hexigate was on board for it along with a couple of others. It's still growing steadily, but since we mostly engage people through the forums, we're kind of stuck at getting only creators to see it, and not enough pure readers.

Hopefully, someday, it'll grow enough to become a valuable resource.

If anyone here starts a special project to make exposure for novellists, please let us know, so we can inform our readers and discordees and they can check it out.

[domisotto]

Yeah, I expect that to end up with me giving and never receiving any feedback. That seems to be my pattern with not enforced exchanges

[DWaM22]

But this happens inside another thread rather than being a standalone. It's generally done with people posting and reading within 48hrs

I personally don't think this forum is as massive or fast-moving to really make sense to just start them up in random threads. Especially since it might arguably rude to seemingly hijack a topic for that.

[foxnflames]

When I did a topic like this, I made “rules” so people can go in order because I didn’t want someone to post and everyone jumps on their story and someone gets left out.

@IntoTheTempest I thought that was your story! You reminded me to follow you on twitter so I can follow updates! And I’m already subbed ️

[IntoTheTempest]

Thanks I hope you like it.

[nostalgicroxas]

Yeah, here you'd have to make a seperate thread for it and close it for submissions after a few days/ week and then have a week or something for people to give the responses.
@domisotto these aren't "reviews" so much as ... input. It's nothing super formal which is what makes it more relaxing.

[domisotto]

I did not do serious critics or reviews for a while (though I do book write ups on friends' requests once in a while once I finish the whole book) so I assumed it was just a few comments, the usual internet sandwich feedback. Some people can't even put a single line, lol

[AWFrasier]

That's why, in a community of authors, we pretty much need to support each other if we want to get some acknowledgment and recognition of what we've actually made. And with everything I've just laid out, it's clear that the only way that will realistically happe ns if there's some kind of incentive.

What I've seen and experienced, the best thing is to get shout-outs from authors in your genre. (This is obviously anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt)

But yeah, network with authors who write the same thing as you, and start promoting each other. Share readers with each other. Network with authors who have bigger platforms than you (obviously don't be all leechy about it and beg for shout-outs. Establish a proper relation/friendship) But it's especially effective on Tapas as there's not that many novels on here yet, and readers are hungry for new stuff to read. Especially stuff that they really like.